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-   -   Defending SGs against mirvs (https://forums.fortress-forever.com/showthread.php?t=21976)

moosh 07-12-2010 11:56 AM

Defending SGs against mirvs
 
Are there any ways to defend my sentry gun while a mirv explodes near it? I keep hammering the fucker but I get fucked up from the mirv. Is there any way at all? Or is it like 1 mirv and my sg is guaranteed gone. :mad:

Bridget 07-12-2010 01:14 PM

It all comes down to placement. If the grenade is far enough away, you can sometimes crouch and maneuver around the gun so that each or most of the smaller successive explosions are absorbed by the front (relative to your position) of gun and not your face allowing you time to tank the gun with your wrench. However, if the grenade lands right at the base of your gun, there's no point trying to save it. The MIRV is terribly overpowered, but the development team so far doesn't give a shit.

Elmo 07-12-2010 04:33 PM

Your post has a point, fine. But will you please stop with this stupid attitude towards the development team you have acquired.

Crazycarl 07-12-2010 07:47 PM

We give a shit. We give a huge shit.

EDIT: The initial explosion, and each bomb that comes out, is as powerful as a frag (they used to be stronger pre-2.4), so there's no hope if it lands right on top. If some of the bombs are far from your sg, you might be able to repair right in the middle of the explosions and keep it alive. Most likely, you and the gun are going to die if you try it.

Iggy 07-12-2010 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bridget (Post 472759)
It all comes down to placement. If the grenade is far enough away, you can sometimes crouch and maneuver around the gun so that each or most of the smaller successive explosions are absorbed by the front (relative to your position) of gun and not your face allowing you time to tank the gun with your wrench. However, if the grenade lands right at the base of your gun, there's no point trying to save it. The MIRV is terribly overpowered, but the development team so far doesn't give a shit.

The Mirv needs to go to 6 bomblets, rather than just 4. It's a fucking Mirv, it's SUPPOSED to fuck shit up! What do you want, the fucking thing to burst into some balloons with the word "BANG" on them?

Bridget 07-13-2010 01:23 AM

Yes, the MIRV is supposed to be powerful. I'm well aware. Instead, it's too powerful. I am going to offer the same suggestion I gave a long time ago. Fragmentation grenades need to be made into Anti-Personnel grenades. They should do 100% damage to players and 25% damage to buildings. MIRVS can then be made into Anti-Structure grenades. They do 100% damage to buildings but 25% damage to humans. Get rid of the bomblets. Keep the initial explosion.

hlstriker 07-13-2010 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bridget (Post 472788)
[Frag grenades] should do 100% damage to players and 25% damage to buildings.

I too always thought grenades should do reduced damage to buildables.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bridget (Post 472788)
MIRVS can then be made into Anti-Structure grenades. They do 100% damage to buildings but 25% damage to humans. Get rid of the bomblets. Keep the initial explosion.

This is a really interesting idea. Though I think the bomblets should be kept and the damage of the initial explosion + bomblets should be tweaked.

KubeDawg 07-13-2010 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bridget (Post 472788)
Yes, the MIRV is supposed to be powerful. I'm well aware. Instead, it's too powerful. I am going to offer the same suggestion I gave a long time ago. Fragmentation grenades need to be made into Anti-Personnel grenades. They should do 100% damage to players and 25% damage to buildings. MIRVS can then be made into Anti-Structure grenades. They do 100% damage to buildings but 25% damage to humans. Get rid of the bomblets. Keep the initial explosion.

That is the gayest idea I've heard yet. It's a frag grenade, it explodes shit human OR robotic.

Bridget 07-13-2010 06:52 AM

Yeah bro, because realism is really what's fueling this game.

Iggy 07-13-2010 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bridget (Post 472793)
Yeah bro, because realism is really what's fueling this game.

So.... what exactly IS your problem with a grenade that fucks shit up?

angrypyro 07-14-2010 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bridget (Post 472788)
Yes, the MIRV is supposed to be powerful. I'm well aware. Instead, it's too powerful. I am going to offer the same suggestion I gave a long time ago. Fragmentation grenades need to be made into Anti-Personnel grenades. They should do 100% damage to players and 25% damage to buildings. MIRVS can then be made into Anti-Structure grenades. They do 100% damage to buildings but 25% damage to humans. Get rid of the bomblets. Keep the initial explosion.

MIRVS are given to defensive classes like Demo and HWguy. Usually offensive classes are the ones that need to do the structure destroying.

Bridget 07-14-2010 03:18 AM

Everything's good in theory.

chilledsanity 07-16-2010 10:51 PM

Once upon a time sentries would push somebody flying at it straight back because it was a meanass sentry gun and took some planning to take out. Not only would this kill invaders, but it also made it difficult to get close to them, granting an extra layer of protection. Then push got reduced heavily, so everybody short of a bunny hopping hwguy could run right up to it. This led to mirvs taking out sg's being a commonplace occurence, rather than requiring careful manuevering to pull off, causing a balance shift.

Nerfing the mirv isn't a good solution, because it would just be a reaction to nerfing something else that used to work. And I agree, they SHOULD cause a lot of damage.

This is a general question that does depend a lot on map layout, but due to changes in FF, the new answer to this question is you can't really stop this by yourself if a demoman has a hard-on for your sentry. As I understand it, the expected approach now to keeping your sentry alive is to get your teammates to babysit it in addition to yourself. In TFC it was possible to keep your sentry up by yourself under most situations. In FF, it's expected that it takes you and a couple teammates to do the same thing as a way of promoting teamwork.

Pixel 07-16-2010 11:16 PM

Temporary SG Shield? Would only last long enough to protect against a nade or two. Have charge-up.

Ronzui 07-20-2010 08:58 AM

A problem Ive been realizing is the wrench repair mechanic has about a half second delay, not sure if its designed that way or what, but I know its annoying. It would be nice to get this fixed. I know its not a latency issue.

Elmo 07-20-2010 09:08 AM

I'm guessing that is purely messaging and latency.

Maybe/probably the HUD update is slower once it's received the message back from the server. That might be possible but there won't be any intended latency to to actually repairing it.

I don't think the hud is the fastest thing, I'm doing some new stuff now and there is lag between hitting it and it updating on the hud - I'll try to take a closer look anyway but not sure we can do much/anything about it.

Marxist 07-21-2010 08:08 PM

Quote:

Temporary SG Shield? Would only last long enough to protect against a nade or two.
Better yet, learn to use your sg as a shield and it'll rarely ever go down :p The model is big enough that you can wrench it while it absorbs a blast without a whole lot of thought.

As far as the mirv conversation goes, it's already been lowered, and if your sg gets mirved then you need to be able to judge if it's savable or better to just dismantle and run like hell. As the mirv is now with mirvlets being equal to a frag grenade each, well, I've seen plenty of people run right through them and survive, I think its fine where its at. The biggest issue with mirvs or any other grenades is the whole explosion slowing thing that was added in 2.4, if you get caught by the initial blast, you're pretty much boned. Focus your opinions on what the cause is rather than just randomly blasting things.

chilledsanity 07-22-2010 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marxist
Better yet, learn to use your sg as a shield and it'll rarely ever go down The model is big enough that you can wrench it while it absorbs a blast without a whole lot of thought.

You still take damage and knockback from the blast if you're close enough to the sg to repair it. The only "shielding" aspect the sg performs is to provide a point of impact farther in front of you than your face. It doesn't actually provide any protection like it did in TFC.

Marxist 07-22-2010 02:07 PM

Quote:

You still take damage and knockback from the blast if you're close enough to the sg to repair it.
If you're taking any damage from a nade you're not using your sg as a shield properly. It does block all damage if you position yourself properly. If anything its far easier to use the sg to block nades in ff than it is in tfc, nades in tfc that actually land real close to the sg in tfc do damage through the gun and it doesn't block anything, the radius in tfc is larger and more powerful than what we have in ff for regular frags.

squeek. 07-23-2010 06:20 AM

I've noticed that as well. Nades on the ground are pretty easy to block with the SG (I remember doing ring-a-round-the-SG blocking nade damage for ages on plasma). It's rockets and flying nades that pose a problem.


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