Fortress Forever

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-   -   an original question (yay?) (https://forums.fortress-forever.com/showthread.php?t=4603)

o_id_ 04-15-2006 08:50 AM

an original question (yay?)
 
im almost certain no one has asked this question yet, so lets get right to it; in tfc, if you throw the flag (or the flag is otherwise dropped) there is a small delay before one can pick the flag up again UNLESS someone from the opposing team touches the flag, then it can be picked up immediately. will this be carried over into fortress forever? if my question isnt clear enough, let me know and ill try to elaborate.

while it takes more than a modicum of awareness to make this feature useful, it is definitely one of those things that separates a good offensive player from a great offensive player.

o_kam 04-15-2006 09:04 AM

I always considered it a bug so I'm hoping it won't be in the game.

o_id_ 04-15-2006 09:11 AM

i guess it could be a bug, but the way i see it, if youre defending the flag, and someone tosses it, the onus is on the defenders in that area to recognize what is going on. with that little bit of awareness, you can buy yourself an extra 3 seconds for an additional defender to back you up. of course this doesnt help if another offensive player is coming, as he is not affected by the delay, but i still think that it takes a rather skilled person to use this to his or her advantage, and thus can reward players for being heads up in their playstyles.

kind of like bhop is a "bug" i guess you could call this one a "bug" as well

o_qui 04-15-2006 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kam
I always considered it a bug so I'm hoping it won't be in the game.

Nah, it was a good little addition IMO, it made you really think when throwing the flag.

However it is a little unintuitive, as it dosnt really tell you why you cant pick up the flag and it dosnt tell you when either.

Lost count the number of times ive been standing dodging fire, running over the flag just waiting for it to be pickupable again.

It needs to turn grey or something or have a cheesy padlock over it, so its obvious to the player, but keep it in!

o_id_ 04-15-2006 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qui
However it is a little unintuitive, as it dosnt really tell you why you cant pick up the flag and it dosnt tell you when either.

i agree that it is a little unintuitive. part of the reason for this is the lack of it being mentioned in any documentation related to tfc (at least, i have never seen it mentioned in any manuals or FAQs that i have read). if the dev team decides it would be a good thing to include, i can only imagine it being mentioned in the documentation.

im not really sure how i would feel about there being an obvious way in which to know that the flag can be picked up again. i think it just being mentioned in the documentation, or even included in the "training mode" would be enough for people to understand the concept. this would reward players for being more aware, and it would be another one of the many skills that people could learn and benefit from (just like conc aim, bhop, gliding, etc).

o_kam 04-15-2006 10:57 AM

Yeah definately unintuitive, a lot of people dont know about it and I haven't seen many people deliberately do it. Not too fussed either way tbh.

mervaka 04-15-2006 11:28 AM

im not fussed myself, but if there is a delay, the padlock thing seems a good idea (or just stop the flag glowing maybe)

yeah thats a point.. will the flag still glow? :p

o_id_ 04-15-2006 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mervaka
im not fussed myself, but if there is a delay, the padlock thing seems a good idea (or just stop the flag glowing maybe)

yeah thats a point.. will the flag still glow? :p

my only problem with that is it kinda takes the skill away from the flag delay. im sure some would argue about whether or not its a skill or not, but ive only met a handful of people who have the ability to use this to their advantage (of course it could also be argued this is because its not a very widely known feature). making the flag turn gray or whatever to me is just dumbing it down a little too much for me. imho, i think if its in the documentation and/or included in the tutorial, that should be more than enough to keep players aware. plus it gives those who take the time to read and go through the tutorial the upper hand. knowledge is power :p

o_paft 04-15-2006 03:09 PM

Hum, tough question. I have no idea what would be better?
As both ways have advantages/disadvantages depending whether you're on deference or offence.

Jiggles 04-15-2006 03:24 PM

This has actually been discussed at some length before here

The Seach tool is your friend ;)

o_kam 04-15-2006 05:01 PM

I didn't think it mentioned throwing it at the enemy so you can pick it up again straight away in that thread?

edit: nope, only gogeta did and no one replied

o_luminous 04-15-2006 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qui
Nah, it was a good little addition IMO, it made you really think when throwing the flag.

However it is a little unintuitive, as it dosnt really tell you why you cant pick up the flag and it dosnt tell you when either.

Lost count the number of times ive been standing dodging fire, running over the flag just waiting for it to be pickupable again.

It needs to turn grey or something or have a cheesy padlock over it, so its obvious to the player, but keep it in!

if you watch out, when you throw the flag it comes up with "your team has lost the enemy flag" in writing, when that writing fades you can pick up the flag again, works every time, though you should really be able to predict when you'll be able to pick it up again if you have some timing

o_id_ 04-15-2006 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiggles
This has actually been discussed at some length before here

The Seach tool is your friend ;)

as Kam said, the only person that mentioned anything about this discussion was Gogeta, and i guess no one caught on. this question is assuming that the flag delay is included in the mod. if it isn't included, then this entire discussion would be a waste of time :|

o_exr8ed 04-15-2006 06:19 PM

the reason the flag delay was implimented was because without it... someone can just take a flag to spawn and play catch with himself against a wall, spamming the server with the flag grab sound. i like the way it is now.. i wouldnt want to throw a flag and be able to pick it right back up.. seems too easy to me tbh

o_id_ 04-15-2006 06:25 PM

ex, thats not exactly what were talking about. if you have the flag, and throw it, and an enemy touches the flag, the delay is eliminated and you can pick it up immediately.

o_nezumi 04-15-2006 08:10 PM

Wow yea, see, I was totally unaware of this.

I think it would be nice if the flag stopped glowing when it can't be picked up (merv beat me to it!). Such a little known feature might do with some dumbing down.

o_paft 04-15-2006 08:13 PM

Quote:

I think it would be nice if the flag stopped glowing when it can't be picked up (merv beat me to it!). Such a little known feature might do with some dumbing down.
Fantastic, thats a must do. If the flags are going to have glow, that is.

o_beetle 04-15-2006 11:13 PM

in addition, when throwing the flag sometimes when you are moving fast enough in any direction no matter what way you are facing the flag will be tossed in the direction you are moving and not the way you are facing. Anyone know what I mean, and is it going to be fixed?

o_qui 04-15-2006 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exr8eD
the reason the flag delay was implimented was because without it... someone can just take a flag to spawn and play catch with himself against a wall, spamming the server with the flag grab sound.

If that is the sole reason that is pretty weak. There would be a better way of stopping the spam noises besides radically changing the game play im sure :p

Jiggles 04-16-2006 03:04 AM

Not in Valve's mind. That's why they added the delay in the first place. Valve has a habit of fixing problems with a hammer... (bhop cap, anyone?)

I say the delay should be done away with completely.


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