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-   -   (Beta) ff_TooGood_b1 (https://forums.fortress-forever.com/showthread.php?t=23697)

ian.de 12-19-2012 08:17 AM

ff_TooGood_b1
 
Decided to make a new map, an original design Shutdown Style CTF.

Download Mirrors:
Snark Pit

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z...ps6a790842.jpg
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z...ps0d8cb932.jpg
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z...psd4d39245.jpg
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z...psbee4381d.jpg
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z...ps2067b706.jpg
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z...ps53f6c285.jpg
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z...pse995f3b4.jpg
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z...ps79cbfe3e.jpg
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z...ps08e388ca.jpg
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z...psfc4f0b5b.jpg

aleXtric 12-19-2012 11:52 AM

interesting, i put it on ragequit and GTL. we'll do some pickups on it later ill give u the demos + tell you how it goes

FDA_Approved 12-21-2012 01:34 AM

I feel like the spirals are to steep and long, you can't really conc them smoothly.

Though I gotta say I really like your surf ramps. They do a really good job of what surf ramps are about. Preserving momentum.

KubeDawg 12-21-2012 02:53 AM

surf ramps on a non-surf map? +10 internetz for you! I wish more maps had surf ramps on the walls. That'd make for some interesting play.

FDA_Approved 12-21-2012 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KubeDawg (Post 497462)
surf ramps on a non-surf map? +10 internetz for you! I wish more maps had surf ramps on the walls. That'd make for some interesting play.

Hmm, you mean, like ff_factory_b2 perhaps?

ian.de 12-21-2012 07:00 AM

Yeah I watched the demos from the pickup, guess I'll chalk this one up as another loss.

I'll keep at it and hopefully make something that's playable some day lol

Thanks for giving it a shot guys!

FDA_Approved 12-21-2012 07:10 AM

Nah, I don't think it's a loss. It just could use a little improvement, though I can't quite put my finger on where.

Also you need to give the players here time to give it an honest shot. Because they almost never enjoy a map, play seriously, the first time.

Elmo 12-21-2012 10:15 AM

yeah dont give up... (see medeival_b9999)

Ricey 12-21-2012 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FDA_Approved (Post 497468)
Because they almost never enjoy a map, play seriously, the first time.

^

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elmo (Post 497470)
yeah dont give up... (see medeival_b9999)

Elmo, thats because you are setting the highest beta version numbers

Raynian 12-22-2012 03:15 PM

just as a note for maps with surfs on them

there needs to be something in the lua to change

sv_airaccelerate 100

(default 14)

if it's too low it's often not possible/worth it to surf as you lose too much speed and can't aircontrol

I don't know if map luas override server configs like that though, or if the server owner needs to manually make it so these maps have a larger airaccelerate value

aside from that, awesome shit, we definitely need more maps with "skill" in them (like how highflag has the trimp in the back route)

KubeDawg 12-22-2012 06:07 PM

the problem with that is hitting backwards will stop you in your tracks quickly rather than a more gradual stop while airaccelerate is set to a default of 10.

maybe finding a less-steep angled surf ramp would be the solution instead, but obviously not too shallow as you would just be able to walk on it.

FDA_Approved 12-22-2012 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raynian (Post 497513)
just as a note for maps with surfs on them

there needs to be something in the lua to change

sv_airaccelerate 100

(default 14)

if it's too low it's often not possible/worth it to surf as you lose too much speed and can't aircontrol

I don't know if map luas override server configs like that though, or if the server owner needs to manually make it so these maps have a larger airaccelerate value

aside from that, awesome shit, we definitely need more maps with "skill" in them (like how highflag has the trimp in the back route)

Ummmm, no. Even with FF's physics at default surfing will maintain 100% speed if you do it perfect. And You will maintain most of your speed even if you don't do a particularly bang up job.

I mean come on guys, have you played ff_factory_b2 yet, or tried the surfing in ff_toogood?

EDIT: DO YOU EVEN SURF BRO?

Raynian 12-23-2012 11:35 AM

if you make a perfectly angled surf that doesn't turn and requires no input to control yourself, you can maintain speed. but try doing surf_assasin_r without turning airaccel up. even just getting past the first surf is nearly impossible, you can't do the quick turn into the islands.

some of the in-base surfs on factory are okay, but you don't honestly need them since you're concing in the first place. The mid-ramp surf is pretty much worthless since it's faster to just use the jump pad and bhop the rest of the way.

FDA_Approved 12-23-2012 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raynian (Post 497527)
if you make a perfectly angled surf that doesn't turn and requires no input to control yourself, you can maintain speed. but try doing surf_assasin_r without turning airaccel up. even just getting past the first surf is nearly impossible, you can't do the quick turn into the islands.

some of the in-base surfs on factory are okay, but you don't honestly need them since you're concing in the first place. The mid-ramp surf is pretty much worthless since it's faster to just use the jump pad and bhop the rest of the way.

Ray doesn't know what he's talking about orrrr. You can ride the jumpad onto the mid yard ramp, loose pretty much no speed, even when it's turning. Bro, the air accel is what would cause you to gain speed from surfing. But as it is a surf ramp is a frictionless environment by nature, reguardless of what the servers air accel is set to.

So as it is it's really just as fast to use the yard ramp as it is to use a jpad chain, and in the next version there will be more of a reason to use it.

So like I said, a surf ramp will allow you to maintain 100% speed if you do it right. Even it it turns and requires input from you. I mean, just because you're bad at it doesn't mean it's possible. Are you really gonna tell me it's not possibly when I've done it a million times, and have hud_spedometer up to look at my results? And that all this surfing we've been doing in the countless pickups the maps been played on, have been but a dream?

KubeDawg 12-23-2012 08:56 PM

Nah FDA, he is correct. Air Accelerate 100 has always worked best for surfing from TFC to CS 1.6 to CS Source to FF. The problem is incorporating it into a real map where you your movement is affected by the 100 air accelerate when you are not surfing. It just doesn't work well.

Surf maps cannot be completed in 99% of cases if set to air accelerate 10 and I dare you to try if you don't believe me. I spent a few years perfecting surf maps aalthough there no decent examples of surf maps on FF that can be tested. But, if you are interested FDA, I can probably show you the ropes as you sound like a total noob when you say air accelerate 10 is a viable option for surfing.;)

FDA_Approved 12-23-2012 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KubeDawg (Post 497533)
Nah FDA, he is correct. Air Accelerate 100 has always worked best for surfing from TFC to CS 1.6 to CS Source to FF. The problem is incorporating it into a real map where you your movement is affected by the 100 air accelerate when you are not surfing. It just doesn't work well.

Surf maps cannot be completed in 99% of cases if set to air accelerate 10 and I dare you to try if you don't believe me. I spent a few years perfecting surf maps aalthough there no decent examples of surf maps on FF that can be tested. But, if you are interested FDA, I can probably show you the ropes as you sound like a total noob when you say air accelerate 10 is a viable option for surfing.;)

Have you fucking...played...my map...

Are you even fucking listening to what I'm saying, there currently two maps out right now where you can surf. CTF maps, with stock physics.

A surf ramp is a frictionless surface.

Without friction, you won't loose speed.

The amount of air acceleration doesn't change the fact that surf ramps are a frictionless surface.

Sure you can't just drop onto the ramp and speed off like in a surf map. But if you say ride a jump pad into one, or conc into one, it will allow you to travel, without loosing speed or height, for as long as the ramp goes.

How fucking retarded are you to tell me it's not possible. When it happens on a map that gets played in pickups at least twice a day...

EDIT: Also of course you can't complete an actual surf map without the turned up air accel, because those maps are made to incorporate that. You need to do more than maintain speed in those maps, you have to actually gain speed. I never said you can do a surf map with turned down air accel.

aleXtric 12-23-2012 10:43 PM

wish i could surf on ur map. WhenFFAirAccelerate100

Raynian 12-25-2012 11:41 AM

the thing is, without the possibility to increase speed via surfing, it's pretty much worthless to ever even use them except for the "surfs" that are basically just rampslides

the mid-yard one is worthless because you can just bhop instead of using the surf, which is faster anyways, and the in-base ones are stupid because you're going to moving in a straight line because you can't aircontrol on a surf without dropping speed like crazy.

I can say "well bhopping on a server that has strafe jump maps is worthless if it's got a bhop cap"

well yes of course but that's no reason to make the bhopping worthless

as it is factory just needs the ability to do more on the ramps, without being able to utilize them properly it's missing out on a lot.

also you can't ever make a "perfect" surf in source because of the way mapping works, and the surf in factory is pretty blocky to begin with.

FDA_Approved 12-25-2012 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raynian (Post 497580)
the thing is, without the possibility to increase speed via surfing, it's pretty much worthless to ever even use them except for the "surfs" that are basically just rampslides

the mid-yard one is worthless because you can just bhop instead of using the surf, which is faster anyways, and the in-base ones are stupid because you're going to moving in a straight line because you can't aircontrol on a surf without dropping speed like crazy.

I can say "well bhopping on a server that has strafe jump maps is worthless if it's got a bhop cap"

well yes of course but that's no reason to make the bhopping worthless

as it is factory just needs the ability to do more on the ramps, without being able to utilize them properly it's missing out on a lot.

also you can't ever make a "perfect" surf in source because of the way mapping works, and the surf in factory is pretty blocky to begin with.

You just lack imagination. Take the ramp in connector as an example. If you're in foyer you can conc main and at that point you have two options. You can either go in through the entrance closest to main, or conc through connector. Both routes will net you relatively the same speed, and get you to the same location. The only difference is that one route takes longer. Again you'll have to use your imagination to figure out why taking a slightly longer path would be worth it. You could sync your run with a scout that goes in main while you conc connector maybe. Or just mix it up, conc main a few runs, conc connector a run.

Without that surf ramp there, a conc from foyer would not get you all the way through connector. Because what I'm trying to say is that a surf ramp, reguardless of air acceleration, allows you to maintain your momentum. Not just speed, but also height. It's basicly an extension of your conc.

Also to say that bhopping is faster than surfing is silly. Sure a jump pad chain in yard would be MARGINALLY faster than surfing the yard ramp. But again use some imagination maybe? With the first jump pad set up before the ramp, you can surf out yard and then put your teams other jump pad somewhere else that might be usefull.

But if you think that riding the first jump pad, and then bhopping the rest of the way is faster than riding the jpad into the ramp, you're delusional, and or don't know how to surf.

Another example of surfing being usefull is in ff_toogood. If you set the first jumpad in foyer somewhere, you can is it to land on the surf ramp that leads of out the base, and put the second jump pad somewhere around mid yard. This extends the jpad train quite a bit compared to where you would land without the surf ramp, and gets you through yard and going into the base much faster.

You might not think it's much better than ramp sliding, but consider this. The fact is you will loose less speed surfing than rampsliding. Sure, you can air control while rampsliding. You can on a surf ramp as well, you just can't air strafe into the ramp, you can air strafe away from it.

This kind of stuff is the staple of the Fortress genre. Finding geometry that compliments the incredibly rich physics. To say that surfing doesn't compliment FFs stock physics is just ignorant. Perhaps surf ramps in a ctf map haven't been implemented to their fullest potential. But there's only two maps that even try.

You seriously underestimate the potential of surfing as a mechanic in stock FF. Clearly you lack imagination.

EDIT: Oh and btw you will gain speed on a straight surf ramp with air accel at 10, which seems to be the default, not 14.

Raynian 12-25-2012 01:22 PM

holy shit how many times did you say imagination

or completely bullshit and miss the point and flop around looking for an excuse (imagination)

or how much you whined about me being bad instead of just realizing through imagination that your imaginatory map might not be a perfect imagination

imagine that


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