FF going forward
 

Disclaimer: This thread is intended to stimulate some mature discussion based on FF's state of affairs, something I think thats lacking on here. I have been following FF for years and personally I am dissapointed in the end-product not being played by many people. I'm sorry if my honesty here offends some but I hope to be able to reflect on things here in an educated way without insults/flaming etc

So as we know, FF's popularity is quite dissapointing. Personally I have very little access to play games on Steam but based upon what I have seen, its barely played at all. I look at the steam statistics right now and theres currently only 12 people playing. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Why do you think this is? Is the game really that poor?
My opinion from an external point of view - its as if the devs have given up on the game. I see very little activity on these forums, less than before the game was released. Thats strange. Why is there no activity on here? I think its because the website looks dead. The last column was in September. News strories are sporadic at best. Whoever works on the PR for this game needs the sack. Or is there even anyone working on the PR? If not, why not?

I think its such a shame that this is how its turned out. I had such high expectations but I feel as though the game has been bulldozed by TF2's popularity on the same release date. Have devs / those involved with FF given up?

So anyway, questions more specifically to the devs:
Is there a masterplan Im not aware of to improve things?
do you think things need improving? (maybe im in the minority thinking they do)
How would you do things differently if you had a chance to wind the clock back a year or two?

... again? Or do I just have a strong sense of deja vu?

maybe I was too hopeful in getting a mature discussion here


Please point me in the direction of a relevant topic, I look at the forums frequently and havent seen one. Or are heads buried in the sand and these topics deleted?

Give FF some time.

Can you elaborate on that? I'm interested to know

How do you think in time that it will improve? Do you think its going to grow from 12 current users to 200 with this much website activity for example?

Again.... not trying to offend anyone.... I just want some discussion on how to improve things :-) We are ultimately all looking for the same thing here.


A more specific question....
Who is in charge of PR for FF?
How many volunteers have there been to deal with the PR?

Surely there are some willing to do it if asked...

Production.

again, give it more time, thus more bug fixing, more patching,etc.

You are now in charge of the unofficial PR campaign for Fortress Forever. I give you full power to do this unofficial position as you see fit to develop a plan (but not execute it) to do the job. I want a full plan outlining what you intend to do to bring up the player numbers by the end of the week, posted here. Remember, your cost budget is $0. Your plan is priceless. Don't come to me with problems, come to me with solutions.

Scuzzy

There you go, you just got Scuzzy'd.

Ok, he's wanting a mature discussion. That separates it from the whining threads. Let's actually fire a few synapses for this one.

- People are tired of hardcore TF gaming
- TF2 is there, with many other good games
- Generally speaking, mods ain't that popular nowadays
- FF has some issues, which make me and some others not to play the game

I think the game is very popular for the amount of television advertising it got... as well as the paper press.... and ign reviews... and all the other forms of adds they were handed to advertise.

Seriously, what did you expect? This is a fan-based game. It wasn't paid for by a large gaming corporation that has millions of dollars to make crafty tv ads with your favorite player classes. This was created by passion and it's played mostly by players that have the same love for TFC that the creators have, just without the talent.

I think too much criticism is given to the makers and not enough is given to the players. You have a simple problem and there's a simple solution. Advertise. Tell your friends, go play other games and tell the people you meet there. If 200 people get 1 person to play each, then we're at 400, then if those 200 get 1 more we're at 600, and on and on and on.

Ask not what the makers can do for you, ask what you can do for the makers.

:P

I agree, I personally hate the "FF is Dead /cry" threads, but this guy prefaced it with the want to actually have a mature discussion so let's actually do it, keep the flames out of this one and actually brainstorm as a community to what might help.

I suggest:

Improve the wiki...it needs to be readable and as it stands it's pretty confusing and out dated. We need people proficient enough in wiki to mess with it and add all the crap that is lacking / out dated.

Start encouraging clans...I have personally been on every admin in every major TF league to get them to do something...UGC finally did and now me and 4est are starting up leagues. We have 3 clans registered and need 2 / 3 more to begin actually hosting matches. I strongly believe this will bring back the community b/c clans are what will keep this game strong. You get a clan backing your mod and they will NEVER let go...look at TFC there are still approx. 10 active clans in every ladder for UGC TFC. Why? Commitment to the game. If we can get that type of clan commitment to FF it will help out this mod immensley.

PR is crap atm...to answer your question. NO ONE is in charge of PR, that's the answer, it's essentially been left up to the community and atm no one is trying. I have personally spammed countless forums with FF posts, but just me doing it doesn't help. I tried to urge the other forum members to actually go post on top of my post's to make it look like there was a community backing this and not just some idiot spamming mindless crap, but alas no one posted crap. This is my post and the offer is still out there. Check out the Fortress Pimp post...it was essentially me arguing with like 6 other guys. Me say's FF rocks...they all said it sucks...I lost b/c I had no support (save johnny the mullet).

We also need GOOD PR films...we need to get some clans out there to allow someone proficient in filming to just sit there and film the pro's at it...get the real moves on FF b/c I don't think people out there get how much potential you really have. If we can get some really good players to pimp out a film then it will go a long way in getting more guys. Some newb see's that film and watches a guy concing like a crazy person he says "dam I wish I could do that shit." Then he's hooked and will start playing.

Other good idea's for vid's are:

1. Concing (yes again)
2. Solly juggling with rockets
3. Scout circle straffing an Sg
4. Engy Rail Gun Jumping (yes I said it...it's new, it's cool, it needs to be promoted)
5. Leet Demo pullin of some sort of insane Jump
6. Leet Demo pwning meds / scouts
7. THE NEW FATTY (period this needs to be promoted)
8. Spy (in all aspects; cloaking, sabing, tranq effects, etc)
9. Spy backstab (show a spy from all angles killing an enemy while disguised...to show that you KEEP your disguise...this is a cool new feature)
10. Pryo "flying" with the AC
11. Pryo getting people to lvl 3 burn (so you get the scream)
12. Sniper - show off the sniper tag and how useful it is
13. scout's radar
14. trimping
15. bhoping (after a conc or something)
16. The new SG
17. ANYTHING FFS

I personally suck at making demo's, but if someone wants to record me I can pull off a lot of those. Bottom line is we need to pro players to really show off their skills publicly so that people are impressed with the mod as opposed to thinking it's just another TF variation.

I also think time will help...but isn't the final answer either.

The dev's need to pick it up and get going again...we need to update the main site, not only the downloads section, but the media section and they need to do a freeking dev journal...last one was 9/17/07 and a ton of shit has happened since then.

We also need an animator to step up and join the team alreadys...b/c there are a few cool things in beta that are just wainting to be properly animated before they are able to release them.

We need more pickups on irc...idk of any for FF really right now. IF we can get a few dedicated servers to allow pickups and people see them happening it will get them to jump in game as well. I know of a lot of clanners that won't pub at all b/c they hate it and as it stands there is no where to play a true clan style pickup on FF. So they stick to TFC.

EDIT: Remembered something:

We need people to stop posting those stupid "FF is dead" threads and start doing SOMETHING.

(please don't take this as an invitation to say that this one is or isn't the same thing b/c that will just muddle up this thread, but seriously like one every week and i'm tired of seeing them)

That's some of the idea's I have, but I can't think of the other's right now so I'll come back to this thread. What do you guys think?

Does anyone feel that new players checking out this game my be intimidated by the game? If someone has never played TFC before. . .They are most likely just bypassing this game and go to TF2 because it is easier to pick up. I play TF2 a lot and there are a ton of people who have never heard of TFC. So I would just say most people dont want to learn the skills to be good at FF. (other than TFC regulars)

How to make a record in FF? Those demos would go where? to site so ppl can see...you tube? both?

I am not a pro, but i guess i can conc fine and bhop fine too. So i can give it a try to do some tricks :).

FF is there and its alive :D

preferably all of the above...

I agree. The website isn't updated, the download section doesn't even have the most current version. Most of the screen shots are old WIP shots. Most of the devs are inactive. Dev positions need to be filled.

I think the biggest problem with FF is that it is not newbie friendly. The hints system was an awesome start for this but I really don't feel it should have stopped there.

Even worse are the people here who seem to go by the: "Well if you practice at it you'll figure it out." system which is heavily flawed. Most new players have no clue what exactly it is they are supposed to practice.

FF still has a little kick left but at this point I don't see much coming out of it. Over the years so many people have come and gone through the dev team and it shows.

This game went from a great idea to a near finished game and now it has a ton of more ideas and improvements to make to it but nobody is here to do the job.

1) The release was rough

* The Steam update just hours before release created things we never saw in testing.
* Server operators decided to run at 100 tic - caused lots of bugs
* Load times and some crashing issues.

People either don't know or don't care that these issues were fixed rather quickly.

2) Timing - TF2
Create enough hype and ppl will get into anything. So tons of ppl play TF2 without ever trying FF. Also, a lot have never heard of FF.

3) TFC idiots.
We had ppl crying everyday about how horrible TF2 was going to be. Then they play it because "well it has players".

The chicken and the egg - we have a lot of people that don't play because we don't have enough players. Somehow they don't care enough to play the game and be part of the solution.

4) League Rules servers on the first day. Thanks for making the whole community look like douches. This scared away a lot of ppl. After scaring away new players, the douches decided to clan TF2. Thanks again.

5) Leadership hid on a remote island after release. Actually, I've been impressed by how many of us underlings have stepped up to keep things moving forward. This is being heavily discussed behind the scenes. FF is moving forward.

6) FF site/Forums - Not enough changed or updated. We have not generated nearly enough excitement or features. New areas are being discussed and added.

7) <this space for rent>

7 should be a lack of dedicated popular league. TFL, UGC, something. One of these popular leagues needs to dump their TFC league and adopt FF in its place. Many TFC players complain about not being able to play FF. Fine. People complained when leagues stopped having games in EVERY other game on the planet. Why TFC is exempt from this rule is beyond me.

The problem with TF, though, is that it is a niche game*. The reason TF2 is so successful is because they made it into a non-niche game. That, coupled with it being advertised (actually, it being sold with the orange box has more to do with it being successful than it being advertised) is why it is popular.

It has nothing to do with it being a TF game. In fact, it could have been called "Dick Squadron Fag Power 3: Revenge of the super-cock" and it would be just as played as it is now.

There is a reason why more people play Insurgency. It has nothing to do with it being a good game. It's a huge niche game, even more-so than TF. The reason more people play it is because it was advertised on Steam.

Why is it that FF has not been advertised on Steam like a hand full of other mods? A simple mention of the mod in some obscure bullshit about TF2 isn't advertising.

We should, you know, e-mail Steam en-masse and request that they advertise FF.

*TFC is also a niche game and, because the niche has been filled, many don't feel the need to upgrade. This is a problem. Those that still play TFC are leaguers, for the most part. Eliminate the leagues you eliminate a niche game and the crowd either ships off or upgrades, with most upgrading.

Is there a hidden big ass plan 4est? i have a good one.. ill post it later...

Just no players to support enough interest. I personally love the version, but now find myself back in the TFC servers because FF got boring with empty servers. I find that most people in the TFC servers have no clue what FF even is. Only one server I ping decent to that ever gets players in it, so that's a problem 2.