I'm pretty sure that you're completely wrong.

What sound logic. Thanks!

A pace isn't the definitive aspect of any game, sorry. And if it is, it mustn't have been much of a game to start with.

The vast majority would say otherwise.

FF is already dead and soon will be passed by TFC in number of players.

K so, you're saying that the instant respawn in TFC had nothing to do with how fast game play was...which in turn also suggests that bunny hopping, grenade jumping of any kind had no effect on the pace and therefore the game at all?

TF2 is uber fun for a simplified version of TF.

But respawn timers SUCK.

Ah but here you are so very wrong.

I define "pace" as simply: how long does it take for relevant events to occur?

Take two highly successful game franchises: Thief and Serious Sam. Different pace? Most certainly. The pace of these two excellent choices is what defines them, separating them from the rest of the FPS pack. For a multiplayer version of this example look no further than Counterstrike and Team Fortress.

When I play CS (and I have), I'm playing a game where setup, positioning, and realism are critical aspects of a simulation experience.

When I play TF, I'm playing a game where frenetic skills, instant decision making, and immediate action are critical aspects of a gaming experience.

My point is, the fundamental rules and concepts of TF lend themselves to a fast-paced, high-action, instant gratification kind of experience. The designers of TF2 seemed to realize this in appearance (graphics), but not in the actual gameplay. It's an unwanted and serious deviation from the kind of experience which people (myself included) associate with the Team Fortress franchise.

The designers of FF realize this in gameplay (if not necessarily appearance), which is why FF remains my favorite of the new versions of TF. Valve, I want my money back. :(

Especially since it's being released on consoles and it takes time for disks to be pressed and shipped...

Warsow.

I dont get why people compare this to TFC.. yeah it was half life and all. But TF for quake is really what the benchmark should be

Wow yea I just played TF2 for about 20 mins. Was about all I could take. What can I say that hasnt been said by 30 other people in this thread? Its a let down. I know some people will find this kind of game fun.. they seem to all be here getting pissed about our view points.

SLOW and borring. Looks cool tho.

Well I'll probably be sticking to Fortress Forever.

FF Pros:
Pyro is semi-useful.
Maps retain most of their original layouts.
Building SGs/Setting Detpacks is highly improved.
Feels like TFC had sex with Quake 3 and they busted out a SourceTF baby of doom.
Decent ingame hints for newer players.
Postive future after bug fixes.

FF Cons:
Pyro is still not 100% useful.
Well needs major improvements.
Monkey needs major improvments.
See the "Report Bug" forum.
Released too early (Understandable)
Not enough "familiar" remakes for the non-clan TFC players.
Half the bugs make you wonder how they weren't found in beta when they slap you right in the face upon connecting.

TF2 Pros:
User Profiles
Accomplishments to make (Rewards system like the Xbox 360)
Personal Stats
Ingame hints > FF ingame hints (for the most part)

TF2 Cons:
Is as much like a TF game as Command and Conquer Generals was like a C&C game.
No grenades.
Maps don't feel like their originals even though the layout is the same.
None of the classes bare much resemblance to their TFC counter-parts.
Sentry guns are worthless.
Will probably not be played nearly as much as Portal.

I did my best not to be biased as I am officially devoted to FF (but will play TF2 when I'm bored). All in all TF2 is a lot like those Korean games that lag but you play them for 30 minutes because your bored of the games you play every day. I really don't see any possible way TF2 could pull me in unless they just rewrote the entire game before October.

Well after finally getting the damn thing to run its not too bad. For some reason I have to run it in a windowed mode to get it to open, then i can go into options and change it to full screen. If I don't start it 1st in a window it wont load no idea why, HL2 and FF run great for me. It is much slower paced, but like someone else said about the stats, I love how many it keeps for you.

Haha yeah, good found. I was going like "hm this remembers me something that I can't put into words". :p

There's a difference between a bug being found in beta and a bug being fixable in beta.

Finding a bug doesn't mean it's instantly fixed. Just so you all know.

lol....it most certainly is.
From your previous posts I can tell your just here to listen to your self.

Very disappointed waste of $45.00 feels like your walking in slow motion, no nades, no bhop, and no skills needed to play. Respawn timer blows balls. I dont think I'll ever play again. FF has so much better game play!!!!

TF2=Sucks

I'm amazed that so many ppl accept everything Valve says. They are made of people and can be wrong. Grenades were a similar tool but DID NOT make the classes the same. Valve could make a statement that medics will now have to carry pink dolphins, that slap ppl in the head with their tails, because it will "differentiate the class". There would be those who would say, "hell yes!... Dophins make medics great!".

Changes do not necessarily mean improvement.

Invention does not equate to success. If it was, the inventor of "Toe Floss" would be a rich man.

For those complaining about the respawn timer:

1) Isn't it a server option? I'm 99% sure it is a server option and can be disabled.

2) Cry some more.

its funny that a lot of people knock it because it crashed on them. i played all day with no crashes.

my impression: TF2 is fun as hell... it's no "TFC2" but it's still fun.

oh and the failboat pic, PRICELESS. lol!

i believe it is a server option.