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View Full Version : Pyro: The Effectiveness


o_|3iohazard
02-14-2005, 12:51 AM
As we all know, the pyro in team fortress classic is not a very strong class to use in matches. It isn't effective at all, maybe a little bit for offense. Will the effectiveness of this class be improved in different ways in fortress forever or will it be nearly the same? I don't have a problem with it being the same, because it can be fun to play publicly rather than in serious match play.

o_3xternal
02-14-2005, 01:42 AM
So i thought, until Dante's Inferno Pyro guild spanked my clan's ass...

o_binarylife
02-14-2005, 02:45 AM
The pyro like anyclass can always be utilized to much greater things...

If the unwritten rules weren't so loved by all clanners the pyro would serve as a recon and back-up class. (I'm not bitter...not one bit)

That said, he is pretty weak. But I'm sure the dev team is well aware of this and are currently working on ways to better balance the class.

o_[wtf?]chemical burn
02-14-2005, 02:55 AM
Don't mean to sound testy, but there have been dozens of posts regarding the pyro already, among many other classes. Feel free to dig one up and post a reply to bump it so everyone's ideas can be found in the same place.

Sticky thread: READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A NEW THREAD (http://fortress-forever.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=395)
- Is there already a thread on the same topic? Take advantage of the handy Search utility, and search the forums for similar threads, and help prevent unnecessary garbage threads that do nothing more than clutter up the forum. Redudant threads will be removed.

o_mooga
02-14-2005, 02:58 AM
Pyros can be used very well, it's just that most people don't know how to use pyro or simply don't use pyro. What i first started I tried pyro but besides their flamethrowers (which are week) they are basicly solderes with a worse rpg.

o_orange
02-14-2005, 03:22 AM
Being an effective pyro doesn't mean you kill a lot necessarily. As long as the Pyro deters and messes things up, he's doing his job.

The scout isn't much of a killer either, but he sure is good for getting flags. Pyro might have a similar role....just one that goes unrewarded largely

o_comrade tiki
02-14-2005, 07:16 AM
Never call a pyro weak!

http://img153.exs.cx/img153/2760/casbah00071wg.th.jpg (http://img153.exs.cx/img153/2760/casbah00071wg.jpg)

Although a little longer-lasting burn effect wouldn't hurt me. ;)

o_lillbrorsan
02-14-2005, 10:01 AM
You hacked right? :P :lol:

o_shaolin
02-14-2005, 10:40 AM
10 caps and 17 gren kills :P

o_storm
02-14-2005, 11:07 AM
I think every idea possible for the pyro has been put forward although I actually dont recal reading from the ff team if there was going to be anything new with the pyro or if it was just going to be tweaking. Also I dont remember reading if they felt the pyro needed powering up. Although bearing in mind the massive amount of pyro threads its not hard to miss :)

o_curly
02-14-2005, 02:52 PM
I'm a pyro myself. In TFC I could do alright as a pyro, and most people would be surprised. I'd often see half of the other team go pyro for a round or two after seeing me play as one, then get frustrated and switch classes. However, I still think that it's underpowered; I played it as a challenge/imressive thing more than anything else. In ETF it's more balanced, however. The rockets do much more damage, and it's easier to hit things with the flamethrower. (the flamethrower is quite powerful, even in TFC; it's just hard to hit the enemy with) He moves faster than most of the "medium" classes, making catching up to them to burn them doable. Medics are no longer impossible to take down with flames either.

Anyhow, one of the reasons why the pyro is more effective in ETF (this is a relatively small one, however) is that it's easier to switch weapons. The trick to being a good pyro is to be able to switch between flames and the napalm cannon easily. (and the sg for underwater use) It's much easier in ETF because secondary fire toggles between the two weapons, and if that's not your bag, they're in slot 3 and 4. Slot 5 is hard to reach on the spot, and it would be much easier to move it into slot 4 (I think slot 2's unused in TFC as a pyro, right?) Also, the mouse2 weapon toggle is immensely helpful. Make it switch back to the cannon after you hit it once to bring up the flamethrower.

o_storm
02-14-2005, 03:33 PM
The keypress issues aren't what make the pyro crap in tfc as you could do weapon change scripts to replicate the etf controls very easily. The pyro problems are intrinsic to the weapons and weapons only imo.

o_silver
02-14-2005, 03:52 PM
i know there r other pyro threads, but this 1 is already here so may as well post

basically i think the pyro is doable, its just so much harder to get good at because of the weekness of his weapons. much easier to just be a solly

o_binarylife
02-14-2005, 04:01 PM
There are a great many pyro threads. They all generaly complain about how weak the pyro is, or how it's too strong and is considered a n00b class (like every class in the game)

o_curly
02-14-2005, 04:45 PM
The keypress issues aren't what make the pyro crap in tfc as you could do weapon change scripts to replicate the etf controls very easily. The pyro problems are intrinsic to the weapons and weapons only imo.

Actually yea, you're right, it wouldn't be that hard to script it. Besides the weapons, I think that the pyro could use a slight boost in speed. That would help you get in range with the flamethrower.

Jiggles
02-14-2005, 06:55 PM
All they really need to do is make the flamethrower actually a FLAMEthrower...

o_|404|innoc-tpf-
02-14-2005, 07:46 PM
So long as I generate enough flame to torch snipers I'm a happy man!

(Ref: LoF vs SUF)

o_mooga
02-14-2005, 09:50 PM
Anyhow, one of the reasons why the pyro is more effective in ETF (this is a relatively small one, however) is that it's easier to switch weapons. The trick to being a good pyro is to be able to switch between flames and the napalm cannon easily. (and the sg for underwater use) It's much easier in ETF because secondary fire toggles between the two weapons, and if that's not your bag, they're in slot 3 and 4. Slot 5 is hard to reach on the spot, and it would be much easier to move it into slot 4 (I think slot 2's unused in TFC as a pyro, right?) Also, the mouse2 weapon toggle is immensely helpful. Make it switch back to the cannon after you hit it once to bring up the flamethrower.

It's called using Q. Q is the quick change button, it swtiches between your corrent wepon and your last wepon. That was the first skill I learned when I started play HL mods. By using Q, you are always ready for whats coming next. It's also helpful in CS (which I no long play nore like) BC you can switch to knife for quick close-up kills. I use it in TFC for engi between SSG and the wrench.

o_shambukins
02-14-2005, 09:57 PM
I think the pyro should have a longer flame range by a slight amount, and the flames should obey physics, like the cloud bounces and flows slightly along the walls and off corners, so that it can be used to spray down a congested hole or opening(as they are in real life).

After a GOOD hosing areas of the ground and walls should catch on fire temporarily like when a napalm nade goes off, except with HL2 prettyness :P

And if I had things my way, a Pyro would have a fire extinguisher instead of a crowbar or axe or whatnot: for beating foes, and for cleaning up another pyros mess(or their own :B)

o_sobe green
02-14-2005, 11:09 PM
Anyhow, one of the reasons why the pyro is more effective in ETF (this is a relatively small one, however) is that it's easier to switch weapons. The trick to being a good pyro is to be able to switch between flames and the napalm cannon easily. (and the sg for underwater use) It's much easier in ETF because secondary fire toggles between the two weapons, and if that's not your bag, they're in slot 3 and 4. Slot 5 is hard to reach on the spot, and it would be much easier to move it into slot 4 (I think slot 2's unused in TFC as a pyro, right?) Also, the mouse2 weapon toggle is immensely helpful. Make it switch back to the cannon after you hit it once to bring up the flamethrower.

It's called using Q. Q is the quick change button, it swtiches between your corrent wepon and your last wepon. That was the first skill I learned when I started play HL mods. By using Q, you are always ready for whats coming next. It's also helpful in CS (which I no long play nore like) BC you can switch to knife for quick close-up kills. I use it in TFC for engi between SSG and the wrench.

Also called "lastinv".

o_mooga
02-14-2005, 11:22 PM
Your right but quick switch or last wepon means the same thing unless you're binding. And Q is the defalt button BTW...

o_sobe green
02-15-2005, 01:48 AM
I didn't say you were. I was simply stating the actual command name.

o_comrade tiki
02-15-2005, 01:42 PM
No, I did not hack. Yes, I got all ten captures and most of the 17 kills were grenade kills.

I do like the fire extinguisher idea, with the primary being swinging it and the secondary being spray it. Mostly, the pyro seems good in my opinion. The one change which I reccomend, though, would be a more constant stream of fire, and not having those silly puffs. The glide-along-wall idea would be interesting, but unnecessary, and it may hurt other classes too much. The IC is for firing just around corners.

I am fine with switching between 5 and right click. I am very used to it. I use no change scripts or the sort. Those ten captures were all achieved by giving a quick press to the 5 key.

o_lord asriel
02-15-2005, 06:08 PM
1) I think conversation about keys is totally uneccesary; it is far too easy to script things like that that thankfully arent considered cheats (actually, since i've lost a portion of my life binding 64 messages, feel free to ask me for any help in tfc commands :D)

2) I cant have an opinion on if the pyro is underpowered, since i dont play, but too few people play this class damaging the diversity. Either make him better, I suppose, or if this would damage the balance, make him somehow more...wanted to be played.

Personally i could hit noone with the flamethrower.

o_silver
02-15-2005, 06:20 PM
thats cuz it fired like a close range nail gun

o_comrade tiki
02-16-2005, 01:59 AM
The flames should actually be faster moving, and a more constant stream. That would enable quicker and easier ignitions, allowing more people to enjoy the class. However, recently I have seen several more pyros than usual. The non-pyro community has gotten somewhat bored, and therefore less populous. The true pyros stay more faithful on average. Pyros are more common in pub servers. Clan servers always think that a soldier or something would be of higher value, and pyros just don't commit to one thing often.. When I am flaming some soldier and a sniper walks into the room, I go after the sniper.

Sooo I reccomend a steadier stream of fire, and a bit faster out of the zippo. Neither really affect the effectiveness of the pyro, except maybe more output of fire. Then, the flame impact damage could be lowered a point.

o_zdrozz
02-16-2005, 04:37 PM
A useful flamethrower and better IC jumps would make the pyro pretty nice for O, IMHO.

o_sobe green
02-16-2005, 07:09 PM
A thing to keep in mind though, if the Pyro is made useful it is going to be really hard for one Pyro to kill another. Already fighting another Pyro as a Pyro is annoying, I can't imagine having a near draw. It usually comes down to who pulls out the shottie and has the most grenades left right now.

o_fonfa
02-17-2005, 02:29 AM
pyros kicks ass, ill be very happy if he gets stronger, as no one uses them

its the tfc's best class, he can kill, he can cap, he can burn your hairy ass in a sec

o_comrade tiki
02-17-2005, 01:39 PM
A useful flamethrower and better IC jumps would make the pyro pretty nice for O, IMHO.
A better jump would imply more damage. IC jumps tackle 64-unit heights perfectly, which is a very useful height. Napalm-IC jumps are perfect for the most common second-level heights, 128-unit. They're both good as they are. Perhaps pyros are better when rare, to avoid pyro-vs-pyro fighting.


A thing to keep in mind though, if the Pyro is made useful it is going to be really hard for one Pyro to kill another. Already fighting another Pyro as a Pyro is annoying, I can't imagine having a near draw. It usually comes down to who pulls out the shottie and has the most grenades left right now.
If the pyro is made tougher, then it will be harder. If the pyro is made more damaging, it would have the opposite effect. I have fun fighting inexperienced pyros (who are usually a pyro simply because they hate being lit by my fires), as they always forget grenades and the single shotgun.


pyros kicks ass, ill be very happy if he gets stronger, as no one uses them

its the tfc's best class, he can kill, he can cap, he can burn your hairy ass in a sec
Like you said, it's a good class. He doesn't need to be much stronger at all, in my opinion. The only two weapons which are pyro-feared are the Engineer's EMP Grenade and the Soldier's Rocket Launcher. When the pyro is used, it is used well (usually). I am afraid that if the pyro becomes stronger, it will become a whore class. Currently it is one of the few classes not accused of being cheap.

o_funboy
02-17-2005, 02:12 PM
The ETF pyro is practically spot on and can easily compete with the othre classes