ff_congestus - 90% complete

[o_shadow34721]

http://forums.fortress-forever.com/viewtopic.php?p=40962#40962

^^For newer screenshots, follow the link.

[o_nomak]

very nice. I like it a lot. But in that tunnel picture you have the stone textures facing all diff directions. im guessing that at the end of the tunnel is where a fan pushs you up through that hole i see in 1st pic to flag?

[o_shadow34721]

Err.. I just finished tunnel today, so it prolly has at least few flaws in it.
An you are correct about the first picture.

[o_valk]

make sure you make it brighter than that :E

[o_gogeta]

yes, make it brighter... and a little more team colored if you can..

[o_geokill----->]

He can do Team Color yet until FF Textures are release

[o_dirkpitt]

I like the walls on either side of the tunnel. You could hide from grenade explosion or use them to avoid rockets.

[o_ambex]

cool
:)

[o_led]

Hi darkness ! Make it brighter !!! Its a fun map :D

[o_shadow34721]

It's actually a bit brighter than those screenshots make it out to be and I'm not done with the lighting anyways, just wanted to give you all a general idea of where I'm going with the visuals for this map.

[o_danger]

Um, I guess its cool that youre doing a remake, but you could have at least emailed me to let me know... I'm pretty sure I left my email address in the text file that came with the original congestus.

I was planning on doing a port myself... not that having multiple versions of the same map is a bad thing, but it does add more confusion to the players.

[o_jinx]

yeah, you really should at least -try- to contact the original author before doing a port :?

I just played that map last night for the first time in tfc, very fun.

[o_etzell]

For the record, I think this is a dead map. If I were you, I'd just do my own port.

[o_shadow34721]

I was gonna contact you but I couldn't find you... sorry about that.
By no means is it dead, I just haven't pdated this since noone seemed to care...
I've just been screwing around with different looks/themes...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v493/shadow34721/ff_congestus0000.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v493/shadow34721/ff_congestus0001.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v493/shadow34721/ff_congestus0002.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v493/shadow34721/ff_congestus0003.jpg


I'm glad to see danger is here though since I'd rather see someone with experience remake the map, I just couldnt play tfc/ff without it. :D

[o_koochy]

Kickass

[o_deadeh]

By no means is it dead, I just haven't pdated this since noone seemed to care...

We do care, honest :oops:

Looking really good :) :D

[o_danger]

Looks great, I'm just glad someone who knows what they are doing ported it! Keep up the good work -- I'll be working on a different map myself.

[o_kam]

Awesome.

[o_headz]

taking shape nicely, keep us updated for sure :)

[o_derno]

looks awesome i like that in the base the floow is grass not metal/cement

can you show a picture of the yard from bats? that should look awesome

[o_elvis2049]

/me likes this map alot :D
keep it going :)

[o_shadow34721]

Yard from batts? I could... but the map is only 'half'.
Once its all done I can flip the bases afterwards.

[o_fathom]

Is it me... or does the yard look to plain? Im mostly refering to the top entrance. Something about it just doesn not fit. I don't know if it is the texture of the space around the path ways... or the cliff. It just sticks out like a sore thumb. (I know you are in early stages... good time for constructive criticism.) Great job on the rest of the map tho...

[o_shadow34721]

I haven't really got to work on the front enterances yet, still trying to come up with some ideas. (Making it look nice without changing too much is the key here)

Are you refering to that black trim around the base?
I added that for some contrast, but I'm not sure whats gonna happen with it.

[o_buckshot enema[x7]]

For the yard entrances, why don't you just build them upwards? Make it appear that there's almost a substantial base behind and above the entrances. That'd source it up without making any changes to the gameplay. The new areas won't be accessible but it might make the base look better. The yard is simple enough that this shouldn't really impact performance too much. I mean... the majority of the yard is just displacements right?

If I'm not being clear let me know and I'll try to explain it better.

[o_shadow34721]

Yes, and I have added a few inaccesbile area inside the base. This was actually an idea I was goint to work on when I make my way out there, however I don't want to make too much 'extra' base.

[Defrag]

The rock texture is tiling too much, I'd bump it up to 0.5 scale ~or so, or find another rock texture :)

[o_racer]

WOW, those screenies look great. I rarely play TFC anymore (into Hostile Intent) but last night I played TFC and Congestus in fact.
On those last updates I loved the top and bottom pictures the most.

The top shows that area with the machinery that doesnt exist now. Adds much more depth to the map, even if you cant acess that area.

The bottom shows what looks like it may be 2 new routes to the tunnel? I love maps remakes wich add detail and dont just retexture.

[o_fathom]

You know... it could be that black trim..

I just feel claustrophobic when I look at it.. I dunno... :) :)

[o_imbrifer]

I like it a lot - excellent start. I agree with some others that the black trim may be a bit too much..maybe make it brown and give it some dimension? or pick a border/trim texture and find one that looks good to you.

Some of the edges look... edgy and square. I know that is how edges tend to look, but with FF you may try to round some of them off or put 'caps' on them, etc.

Keep up the good work, companero.

[o_shadow34721]

Again, as I said, I've only just begun to truely reform it.
However, I'm going to leave it as close to its origional as possible.
I won't go out of my way to screw up gameply just for visuals.
I have another projet for visuals... not a single 90* angle on the map... vaulted ceilings, the works... but not for congestus. Trying to go for a 'carved from the earth look' almost.

[o_buckshot enema[x7]]

Again, as I said, I've only just begun to truely reform it.
However, I'm going to leave it as close to its origional as possible.
I won't go out of my way to screw up gameply just for visuals.
I have another projet for visuals... not a single 90* angle on the map... vaulted ceilings, the works... but not for congestus. Trying to go for a 'carved from the earth look' almost.

I agree, and I think you're doing a good job capturing that feel. Keep it up.

[o_jarek]

the only problem i'm seeing with this are the dimensions in the flagroom are off, it seems the top flag plat is lower and overall just looks like the flagroom is smaller.

this is a map that really should wait to be ported as it is all concs, and considering you have no feel for the concs in ff yet.. :/

[o_shadow34721]

The dimensions are exactly the same.
I have faith in the FF team to get the concs right, and even if they do I can make the needed modifcations after play testing.

[o_donny]

Could someone tell me how to do diffrent shapes like that balcony has easy? Doing it with arch and vertex thing takes ions :oops:

[o_shadow34721]

Wow.
Looking back, those screenshots are horrible.

I think a minor update is in order, hope you guys like the new look.

Three pictures of the updated battlements:
http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/5277/batts1f5vb.jpg

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/7717/batts2f6gf.jpg

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/9821/batts3f8ps.jpg


Here are some additional screens of the flagroom, which althought I'm not entirely satisfied with, I feel obligated to show to the community.
http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/4521/flagroom1f7wu.jpg

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/8475/flagroom2f2pi.jpg

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/488/flagroom3f0wv.jpg

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/4845/flagroom4f3pw.jpg


Any thoughts/suggestions?


EDIT:
Sorry for the messy presentation, it looks very much better in-game. You'll have to take my word for it for the time being. :(

[o_demasu]

To me in the last pic the flag cap looks too close to where the flag would be. Could be the angle though.

[Defrag]

Nicely done. My only complaint is that your environmental lighting is very yellow and doesn't have much variance in terms of tone. It leaves everyting looking rather washed out. I'd suggest giving your ambient lighting a blue tint, with the sun being a yellow. I'm guessing that both your ambient and sun lights are both a yellowish colour atm.

Oh and I'd pump up the AA / AF level when taking screenies (I get moaned at by the other guys for doing the same thing, but it does make a good difference to presentation).

There are some nice little touches in those screens, I particularly like the torn up floor tiles.

[o_kam]

fkn niiice

although i liked the trim around the top and airlift in this old pic http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v493/shadow34721/ff_congestus0000.jpg

[o_shadow34721]

In reply to the previous posts,

Donny:
First make two cylinders, one for the inner and outer 'slant' of your curves. These will be used for guides. Create an arch using the same properties and use vertex manipulation to align the verticies to match the guides. Then take each brush constituting the arch and divide them into two triangle shaped brushes on the z axis. This reduces errors. Also, remeber that you can do some interesting things with spikes.

Demasu:
fov 110

Defrag:
I'm unsure what you mean by variance in tone of the ambient lighting. Perhaps you could clarify this a little? At any rate, thanks for the kind words and suggestions.

kaMIKazE:
Unfortunately, I removed that trim because it didnt fit with the changing theme of the map. Before it was being developed into a mechanical / metallic fortress, but I was unhappy with this theme and changed it into a more concrete / stone based fortress to compliment the cliffs and 'carved out of rock' sort of theme. (suppressed as it is)


Once I get some decent indoor screens, I'll put them up for you guys.

[o_demasu]

Demasu:
fov 110
Ok, keep up the good work.

[o_imbrifer]

Looks great. Here are my thoughts:
On the top screenshot (battlements) the grate with the red behind it looks a little artificial. Maybe add a border around the grate?
On the second screenshot, the part in the middle where the concrete cradles the rock - the wall looks cut off. Maybe add a border there, or do some texture manipulation to make it look designed to be that way?
In the third shot I love the way the floor curves and has the border texture. Maybe spunk up the ceiling? It looks alright and depending on the rest of the map there might be a place for a flat ceiling. The texture on the columns may need to be addressed - is the one on the left curved? It looks like a block from the angle of the screenie, and in my opinion it is sort of awkward with the texture it has next to the floor texture. Again, as mentioned in my response to the first screenshot, the grate with red light behind it looks a bit cut off, or artificial or what have you.
On the following shot (and I must say you did an AMAZING job there) the border around the fence looks a bit too dark.
On the second to last shot, I think the wall object behind the fence looks odd (though the broken tiles and the ground look excellent). Maybe make displacements and superimpose them on parts if it is supposed to be 'rubble', or make broken pipes jutting out, or make the broad wall facing the camera a displacement surface with the current texture blended with a sort of rubble texture, and make inward dents with alpha masked rubble?

Again, you are doing an amazing job, and though my criticism is picky, I wouldn't waste the time if I didn't know this was going to be a spactacular map. Keep up the great work!

[o_shadow34721]

In reply to imbrifer's questions...
In the third picture the right pillar is curved. The reason for this was that I was forced to scale back the walkways by about 16-24 units because the player wasn't able to walk under it (even though you easily can in tfc, weird...) Since I did not wish to have greatly varying width on the walkway, I reduced that pillar by curving. The texture on it has always bugged me tbh, however the batts/yard hasn't been fully developed at the moment and is soon to get some additional detail work. The one on the left is not curved, but has been left that way to complement the quadrilateral base below it. Together, they retain the same texturing scheme as is seen outside of the base. I do not plan to change the ceiling since preserving gameplay is top priority for me on this particular map.

You note on the fourth picture that the black trim seems out of place, but I assure you it is merely a relic of previous versions of the map and will eventually be dealt with accordingly. On the sixth picture, the odd-looking wall is there to hide a transition from displacements to 3dskybox tbh. I would've liked to make a larger and smoother transition for this area, however at one point rendering and fps come into play, and as we all know congestus is a very conc-heavy map. A large fps drop when entering the flagroom would be detrimental to gameplay to say the least. (for a while I was averaging 20 fps in there until I learned about my new buddy, optimization. I now maintain a solid 80 fps on a radeon 9600) Sometimes looks have to be sacrificed to achieve better gameplay and performance. I only wish I knew more about it when I started this map, perhaps I wouldn't still be cleaning up my old messes :D although such things are intrinsic to a first map I suppose.

At some upcoming time I'll have to create a short video showcasing some aspects of the map.

[o_imbrifer]

Sounds delicious, and thanks for the quick reply!

I know what you mean about optimization - when I flipped and compiled the map I've been working on, the compile time went from 2 to 21 hours, all the brush-based entities were turned into world brushes, and the framerate dropped to the floor. Wish I constructed the level with the optimization I now know in mind. Anyway, here's a link someone on these forums posted that covers just about all I've been able to find on optimization: http://www.student.kun.nl/rvanhoorn/Optimization.htm#chapter5 and I'll go back to cleaning my map...

Anyway, rock on.

[o_weetbix]

looks like you put a lot of effort into that.. nice work

[o_azlan]

In reply to the previous posts,

Defrag:
I'm unsure what you mean by variance in tone of the ambient lighting. Perhaps you could clarify this a little? At any rate, thanks for the kind words and suggestions.


Read this tutorial on lighting that someone special shared with me ;)

http://www.3d-mike.com/game/lighting.htm

[o_valk]

fucking
probably the best non ff-team map so far tbh
very well done

[o_drtom]

looks PRETTY GOOD MY MAN YES

[o_ginger lord]

Looks good, I agree with Defrag though on the lighting, its oversaturated and sucks the textures colour out of the map.

[o_azlan]

I'd really like to see this map in 8vs8 or 9vs9 format.

[Defrag]

This will explain it more:
http://www.3d-mike.com/game/lighting.htm

In other words, don't set your ambient and environment lights to be the same(ish) colours. The ambient colour is the tone that will be applied to all surfaces before lighting, and the environment light is the sunlight that will hit the surfaces. If you set both to a similar colour, it results in a washed out and saturated look. The tutorial I pasted has a lot more info on it.

[o_shadow34721]

Thanks for the explanation Defrag.
I've read that lighting tutorial several times before, but that you said clarifies the ambient lighting issue.
'The ambient colour is the tone that will be applied to all surfaces before lighting'helps immensely as I didn't know what it actually was before you said that.

Although the washed out look I was using was somewhat intentional, I'll play around with the lighting and hopefully get some comparison screens up shortly.

EDIT: Comparison Screens
These were the results after a dozen or so lighting ombinations, tell me what you guys think.

Batts and Flagroom Comparisons (Sorry if they aren't lined up well)
http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/7233/battslights2od.th.jpg (http://img240.imageshack.us/my.php?image=battslights2od.jpg) http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/5633/frlights0wb.th.jpg (http://img240.imageshack.us/my.php?image=frlights0wb.jpg)

And the individual screens for all three sets:
http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/9324/01a6jv.th.jpg (http://img240.imageshack.us/my.php?image=01a6jv.jpg) http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/8259/02a2vi.th.jpg (http://img240.imageshack.us/my.php?image=02a2vi.jpg) http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/7583/03a5vr.th.jpg (http://img240.imageshack.us/my.php?image=03a5vr.jpg)

http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/5098/01b9gb.th.jpg (http://img240.imageshack.us/my.php?image=01b9gb.jpg) http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/4524/02b1ft.th.jpg (http://img240.imageshack.us/my.php?image=02b1ft.jpg) http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/6227/03b7it.th.jpg (http://img240.imageshack.us/my.php?image=03b7it.jpg)

[Defrag]

Those look a LOT better imo. It just gives it a much nicer and balanced feel, rather than being what can only be described as overtly yellow :) It makes the shadows much cooler looking (in both senses of the word).

[o_kam]

much better!

[o_darksoul]

Looking really good (Y)

New lighting improves it loads, keep up the good work!

[o_demasu]

F*ing awesome

[mervaka]

bang on

[o_osiris]

Brilliant! :D

Amazing work my friend

[o_drtom]

new_3 i assume everyones saying ! cause thats the nicest !

[o_shadow34721]

Thanks for all the encouraging words.

new_3 is the one I've been leaning towards and been using for the time being. Once I top off some of the interior areas I'll post some indoor screenshots and possibly an avi.

Hopefully in not too long I can release some screens on a different map I've also been working on.

[o_ramzet]

avi on lan eh?

ive gotten to play around on congestus :P...everything is very much the same and hes doing a great job

in fact when he compiles it we will make an avi for it coming out within 7 days

[o_elvis2049]

looking foward 2 it 8)

[o_shadow34721]

The AVI is currently rendering the (hopefully) final version.
Expect it soon.

[o_elvis2049]

cool :D

[o_gogeta]

I didnt read all of the posts before posting this, so i dont think any of this really applies anymore...


i play congestus alot, i know the map inside and out, i know everything about it, i like that your remaking it, but to be honest with you, from what


ive looked at, it doesnt really feel like congestus. sure, it may be because of the hl2 engine... but the flagroom feels too small, and the ladder coming up from the hole in the floor, theres no tiny ramp to spike D:
the cap point does feel a little close to the flag (as mentioned earlier)..

Suggestions
- Make the map a little more offensive/trick concing friendly (thats how the map originally is imo)
- Space out some things a tid bit more.
- The battlements needs some more spacing (it looks like the lower ceiling is what you need to crouch under..)

id appreciate if you take these into consideration :)

[o_ramzet]

he got it right ive playe tested it, seen his hammer and everything, its right

he knows what he is doing dont worry

[Circuitous]

That size problem you're seeing is probably an issue with how HL2 handles the default field of vision/player height/movement speed/etc. A lot of maps look small or awkward in screenshots, but look perfect in-game. This is most likely one of those situations.

[o_shadow34721]

The only thing I changed was widening the tunnel by 1.5x its original width. All the proportions are the same.

Of course, this doesn't necessarily mean they'll preform the same since in FF since it will most likely feature slightly different concing mechanics... however that's not my department. :D

[o_elvis2049]

when will we be able to walk into your map??
like in an .bsp :)

[o_shadow34721]

Perhaps soon.
I'm currently playing around with different wall textures since the current ones don't really satisfy me... we'll see.

[o_ma|2io]

beautiful <3

[o_leptest]

in the first picture new_3 looks the best. but on the second, i find new_2 looks the best.

sorry if that doesn't help lol.

[o_imbrifer]

Shadow, are you done with this map (except, obviously, for the FF entities)?

[o_shadow34721]

i was done, but recently ive looked back on it and been diasspointed with what ive created. ive drawn up some new concept art and am making the changes currently. When they ere complete, ill try and release a beta version of each to see what you guys think.

[o_ramzet]

i made him change it after i played emulation

all spawns now feature lazers, good luck sitting in respawn, snipers

btw the lazers only kill snipers

[o_shadow34721]

looking at it, im trying to eliminate css textures as well as spice up some of the current ones, im also planning to work in some team coloring theme since it was so prevalent on the original map and i want to build up some of the buildings just a little bit more.

looking back it wasnt too bad for a first map ever made in hammer. :D
however, it could stand some considerable improvements.

and yes, emulation has changed my life. every face will now feature a random texture, all nodraw will be elimitied, ill carve random objects through each other, add random props floating in the air, and above all add LAZERS to all the spawns/flag/basement/batts to kill those NEWBY SCOUTS

[o_ramzet]

cant forget snipers either spawn in the lazer spawn or that floating box that they cant shoot out of but anyone can shoot in in the yard

what a classic

[Imbrifer]

*Digs up this thread*

So uh.. this map r0x0rz.. whats going on with it? Is Shadow still alive?

[Beetle]

*Digs up this thread*

So uh.. this map r0x0rz.. whats going on with it? Is Shadow still alive?

I hope so. its my favorite ctf map. was there ever a downloadable version of his?

[own3r]

I hope so. its my favorite ctf map. was there ever a downloadable version of his?
According the the search there is a "shadow" on the forums, though im not sure if its the same one. They were active in the last few days.

[Gator-]

It's the same shadow owner, just without the lousy numbers :0.

[squeek.]

Any news? Release in the foreseeable future?

[shadow]

beta version is leaked, ive been seeing pugs playing it lol
release this weekend. (soundscapes and loading screen are needed)

[squeek.]

beta version is leaked, ive been seeing pugs playing it lol
release this weekend. (soundscapes and loading screen are needed)
Coolio joeseph. I never got to see the screenshots while they were up, so it'll be fun to see it for the first time in FF.

[GeoKill----->]

I got to see this map and I love it so far in FF
Way Different theme from last SS posted

[Desyphur]

Woo, release soon :D

[SmellyCat]

Good news, FF feels short of maps that "feel" like 2v2 maps (so they can be played with a couple of clan members late at night).

Not that FF maps can't be played at 2v2.
Not that congestus can't be played >2v2.

[shadow]

I got to see this map and I love it so far in FF
Way Different theme from last SS posted
Yes.
I decided to return closer to the theme of the original map (with one difference...) Right now, all I have to do is set up the .res file and I'm finished.