Merged: Disappointed TF2 and TF2 Impressions

[Dr.Uudge]

Originally Posted by BobTheChainsaw

I stopped reading there. Seriously, stop bringing up that god damned argument. The Team Fortress series IS NOT about grenades. The Team Fortress series IS NOT about speed. The Team Fortress series main focus should and always will be the classes, which TF2 has put as it's main focus. You guys are starting to sound like a broken record.

"Oh noooooo, we don't move at 50000 feet per second, it sucks"

"Booooo hooo, no grenades, now we have to actually shoot people"

The logic goes like this:

-TF is about speed.
-Unnamed Fps is not about speed.

-TF is about weapons in addition to the ones you shoot.
-Unnamed Fps is not about weapons other than the ones you shoot.

-TF is about overall rapid/chaotic pace.
-Unnamed Fps is not about overall rapid/chaotic pace.

-TF classes plays a supporting role in amplifying gameplay for CTF.
-Unnamed Fps classes is enforced as the major role for in amplifying "gameplay"

-TF while possibly strategic, is not meant as a "tactical teamwork oriented style of gaming;" it rewards teamplay, but does not punish soloing
-Unnamed Fps enforces "tactical teamwork oriented style of gaming" because it uses classes as the major role in its gameplay; soloing is always punished as there's no way to escape the DM because of the general speed, pace, and game mechanics which makes it nearly impossible to escape the DM

Therefore:

TF != Unnamed Fps
Unnamed Fps = TF2
TF2 != TF

@BobtheChainsaw

It's nothing against you personally. So i would hope you're not taking personal offenses. Its just that i think valve used the tf title as a name dropping ploy, to increase sales, rather than represent the actual gamplay.

[Beast_Within]

Originally Posted by 4est

BoB,

My entire point is that TF2 IS... IT IS ....A DIFFERENT game. Wow... I should just talk to a fence post. It is a different game with different gameplay and should have a different name. It is not a "team fortress" game. New players will associate TF2 with "team fortress" style play and that is incorrect. TF2's legacy will be to dilute what was one of the most amazing gameplay types ever.

It absolutely is a different game. It seems to me the last people Valve would want to alienate would be the existing TF fanbase since that's who's kept it alive for, what, over a decade now?

Team Fortress has never been released as its own stand-alone title. Always as mods, almost always created by fans. The community has made Team Fortress what it is. To depart so dramatically from what has always been true to the franchise strikes me as a major blunder.

But I suppose time will tell. Give it 6 months, maybe some patches, and see who comes out on top. I'll still have TF2 because, well, I've already bought it and it came with Ep2 and Portal.

[DrEvil]

I just want to chime in and say that I believe that the TF community that can't do without the speed and jump tricks and all that are the real minority. Keep in mind that TFC lived for several years of its extreme popularity mostly free of most of the hard core bunny hopping and focus on speed. Every TF mod that has specifically catered to that style has come dead on arrival. I can't turn any of my real life gaming friends onto TF, because most of the time when they experience the 'flying' and, let's face it, hopping air-arcing turbo induced players, it is a severe turnoff for them. I think we're going to have to be content that the speed dependence, and dependence on jumping 'skills' truly is a niche preference.

My first impression of TF2 was pretty bad, for many of the same reasons. I'm just used to more speed and the crazy maneuvering attackers, even though I myself prefer not to BH and the like. After playing TF2 for a while to really give it a fair chance, especially on some servers with some lower respawn timers, I started really enjoying it. It is significantly different than TF games of the past, something no mod has ever wanted to change, to their demise. FF thus far has been the one mod that wants to do something new and try new shit. It's the only reason I joined FF honestly, especially after the clan catering that went on in the ETF dev team.

In short, the majority of the gaming community has no desire to bunny hop, many even don't like the idea of concing. TF2 is TF without those 'hard core' elements, and then some. It's no surprise to me that people are eating it up. I think in large part we're going to see ourself left with a community made up in large part of the more serious TF players. Who knows, maybe if TF2 turns out to lose its longevity with people and they get bored maybe they will migrate over to FF or something. Either way I think we need to accept that for better or worse, the majority of the gaming public wants to play the game, that is, the FPS aspect of the game, and not so much the almost necessary need to learn crazy keyboard and mouse 'skills' to compete. It remains to be seen what sort of longevity comes out of TF2, but I admit after I gave it more time I had fun. Not the same heart rate increasing, speed induced fun I normally get from FF, just fun playing the game, going after the objectives with the rest of the team. Different game, different fun.

We shall see. In the meantime I hope that we can keep FF interesting so that it continually remains an attractive mod for people to get into. We're going to try to put some fresh spins on existing classes like we did the pyro and spy and heavy over time. Hopefully that and the list of other stuff that is planned will keep us from being raped by TF2.

My 2c.

[Thormier]

I think well have a mixture of noobs and old people to be honest , in the next few months i have really really high hopes for FF dont let the beta of FF damp the spirit of your once so motivated hearts !

[Paintedblak]

tf2 may be attractive but it should not have the tf in it

tf has been around so long not cause of graphics but of the genius gameplay and ff gives me that fun again and i am happy that i can play this mod

also the two games have totally diffrent models look and feel in tf2 personall i view it as a like a cheap whore fun for a little while but you are left loneliness and aids hahaha

[groovyf]

Originally Posted by Rawd

Groovy, I think you are partially right. I started my own server and set FOV to 90 and it seems much faster, and less hard on the eyes. To bad you can't change FOV on other servers

I did the exact same thing. tried 90, then my usual TFC 110.
It's almost like my eyes can't adjust to the low FOV - 75 (not 70, my mistake)
For me, 110 is easiest on my eyes

[TwoTired]

TF2 in it's current state is extremely frustrating to play on A/D maps.

I'll can it in one sentence :

12 man team, made entirely of engineers, all defending the cap point.

God damn abysmal.

Spy's sapper fails when engi has so many conveniences such as :

1. Teleporter, in the rare case he actually dies.
2. Increasing chance for him to kill you in 1 hit with his spanner (critical hit bullshit :P - Dev commentaries says that the better you do, the higher your critical chance gets - hence, the longer you're alive, the more you kill, the more crits. Sentry does the killin', engi does the living :/)
3. The engineer gets an extremely convinent warning "SPY SAPPIN' MAH SENTRY :OOO LOLOLO!" insures that even the most remote of SGs will get un-sapped :/.
4. Dispensers. Health and ammo what else do you need? Oh yeah, 12 of them all over the place!

[4est]

Threads merged due to similar nature.

[Everything]

Nicely done there.

[4est]

Originally Posted by Kenny

Nicely done there.

Originally Posted by Kenny

When will 1.1 out??

rofl... touche!

[Titan]

I just want to chime in and say that I believe that the TF community that can't do without the speed and jump tricks and all that are the real minority. Keep in mind that TFC lived for several years of its extreme popularity mostly free of most of the hard core bunny hopping and focus on speed. Every TF mod that has specifically catered to that style has come dead on arrival. I can't turn any of my real life gaming friends onto TF, because most of the time when they experience the 'flying' and, let's face it, hopping air-arcing turbo induced players, it is a severe turnoff for them. I think we're going to have to be content that the speed dependence, and dependence on jumping 'skills' truly is a niche preference.

It's a turn off for them?

No offence on my part but when people look at a game and think..

"O Noes!! i got to practice to perfection a movement rather than point and click..o noes brain overload!!!"

FUCK THEM, if they cant be assed to evolve around a game and learn new tricks (the best part about TFC tbfh!) then they should go back to console games! The simple narrow minded twats who all they want is a point and click game with simple movements! Nothing to actually learn apart from your aim!

Woooohooo boring!

AARRGGHH makes me angry..tell them to get a nintendo

ps...also i got to add that my favorite time of all in TFC was learning to bhop on empty servers with one of the nicest and best people around at the time..[USCM] Frosty!!He would teach me for hours night and morning :E and it was fun..learning something new to improve my gaming experience! Thats what games lack nowadays! learning curves were you maybe practice on your own sometimes like movement etc to try and better yourself on publics!!
now it doesnt matter as u only move like your walking anyways!

aaAARTGGH i aint going to go on...could be here for days..

Some people dont understand that the hardcore tfc players have waited 9 years for this game to be released with extremely high hopes and all valve have given us was the full load of bollocks that tf2 is..

[mervaka]

you guys who havent played a really cool fast paced game of TF, listen up:

i hadnt played a serious game of TF for 5 years for various reasons. i played a pickup the other day and oh my shit, its a different sort of fun indeed. its not the sort of pub play loose fun, this was an adrenaline rush. and i was playing engineer.

i cant wait to get into the clan scene again!

Originally Posted by Titan

AARRGGHH makes me angry..tell them to get a nintendo

of all consoles, you pick the one brand of console who actually make good games? go to hell! nintendo ftw!

[Titan]

ok sega? ps1??

ANYTHING FOR THE SIMPLE MINDED!! you decide ..=)

[Dr.Uudge]

Originally Posted by Titan

ok sega? ps1??

ANYTHING FOR THE SIMPLE MINDED!! you decide ..=)

Pong.

"Back in my younger days when pong came out, our generation was like 'if it gets any more complicated than this, my brain will explode!'" - Conan O'Brian

so after this thread exploded I decided to give tf2 a whirl because I figured that it really couldn't be as bad as everyone was saying that it was, especially after some people were so firm about how amazingly fun it was supposed to be.

My favorite classes in TFC are scout, medic, and soldier. I didn't even bother with medic since healing isn't really what I like to do in a first person shooter, and the idea of running around shooting people with a healing gun doesn't really sound like my idea of fun, so I started off with the soldier. I see soldier as the most balanced class that should typically be able to take anyone on. I very quickly realized there are only two things to do as this class, run and shoot. Run REALLY slowly. Have fun never taking an SG down by yourself, and dying to every HW instantly. HW is already a pain in the ass in FF/TFC, but at least you can jump around and are fast enough to keep him guessing a little. So just take that and toss it down the drain, and put anyone who has any FPS experience behind the HW, and they will have a clear advantage.

Secondly the pace of the game just feels horrible. Everyone seems to be holding back for something, like they're afraid to die. When the map finally changed to 2fort, I figured why not. How am I supposed to get across the now extremely tiny yard when it's just being camped by only two people, who will easily kill me. You can NEVER get around anybody in this game, and the scout's double jump seems to be some horrible replacement of a conc grenade as a movement tool. The only way I could imagine capping anything as a scout in this game is hidding behind your fat, invincible, perma-healed HW(that's how everyone does anything), and then once you get to the flag room try to run it out yourself, since you have extra movespeed. That sounds like fun right.

That pretty much brings me to my next point. As any character, I really feel UNABLE to do anything on my own. The classes seem so crippled to the point where there is so little skill in the game now that if you're in a 2v1 with any two run of the mill 12 year old xbox live players who are similtaneously watching nickelodeon and playing nintendo DS you will still die. There are two things that usually separate small skirmishes apart I always felt and that was your ability to move(juke) and grenades, both of which are removed. The only class that I still like in fact, is the demoman, because pipes are relatively unchanged. I really just feel like the game did a complete 180, from focusing on individual players with high skill, to focusing on total teamplay and team strategy, where it's like you're forced to work together, and no matter what you do individually won't matter, because any other average player can be just as good(pipes are an exception).

I read some review on TF2, where the reviewer was comiplimenting the freeze frame on your killer when you die. Yeah like I actually want my screen to zoom into the noskill sentry that's horribly placed, that i STILL cant even kill. To top it off it says "CAPTURE THIS MOMENT PRESS F5" YEAH LET ME CAPTURE IT SENTRY GUNS YEAH! THIS IS SO INNOVATIVE SCREENSHOTTING SENTRY GUNS. Yeah right.

For some reason this game seems to be so statistically oriented, for whatever reason I dont know. I guess they really want all of the kids to think they're playing counterstrike. A few people were saying that this game really has a day of defeat feel to it, but it's much worse of a game than DoD:S even was on release(and that's a pretty terrible game).

Good things: The art is pretty cool. Um... I didnt try the spy out.

Other thoughts: Where is the fun? I'm not really sure. No concmaps ever, which makes me sad. Can FF please overtake this game somehow?

[BobTheChainsaw]

Originally Posted by Titan

It's a turn off for them?

No offence on my part but when people look at a game and think..

"O Noes!! i got to practice to perfection a movement rather than point and click..o noes brain overload!!!"

FUCK THEM, if they cant be assed to evolve around a game and learn new tricks (the best part about TFC tbfh!) then they should go back to console games! The simple narrow minded twats who all they want is a point and click game with simple movements! Nothing to actually learn apart from your aim!

Woooohooo boring!

AARRGGHH makes me angry..tell them to get a nintendo

ps...also i got to add that my favorite time of all in TFC was learning to bhop on empty servers with one of the nicest and best people around at the time..[USCM] Frosty!!He would teach me for hours night and morning :E and it was fun..learning something new to improve my gaming experience! Thats what games lack nowadays! learning curves were you maybe practice on your own sometimes like movement etc to try and better yourself on publics!!
now it doesnt matter as u only move like your walking anyways!

aaAARTGGH i aint going to go on...could be here for days..

Some people dont understand that the hardcore tfc players have waited 9 years for this game to be released with extremely high hopes and all valve have given us was the full load of bollocks that tf2 is..

Wow, way not to be an over-elitist asshole.

[mervaka]

wanna know why you're afraid to die? yep, its the respawn delay.

[mistermojo]

the more i play it, the more fun it is

it's completely different from qwtf or tfc, though, it's more about teamwork than individual skill, and the capture points + timer actually help make people work together on public servers

[summit]

Smgzor: *sigh* you should play the game more, rather than concluding from first impressions. From everything I've seen it takes longer for people with preconceived ideas of how the game should play, to get used to it.

Just to touch on your points: medic is a decent class. The healing gun does it's job, so to say you want to play as a medic but not run around healing people makes me chuckle. The invincibility coupled with the syringe gun makes him just fine - you certainly can't play him in the same way you've done in the past.

Secondly, never get around anyone? What are you on? As scout it's too easy to get around them. I wouldn't expect anyone to work it all out on their first go, but it just takes a little bit of time. It's very easy.

I've found I can do quite a lot on my own, but that's just me. I agree that you can't go ramboing yourself and capping all the points - I mean that defeats the point in a team fortress game, that's supposed to be team orientated. I think those people saying "omg it shulnt be teh TF" is only because they've been used to a set way. Something different does not mean something wrong, and I'd expect the people behind the original to have a fair idea of what they wanted in their series.

I guess that's the nature of balance, and from what I just read it seemed like you were after something you could jump in as any class and do anything with them. Sure, with worse players than you, that's more than a possibility. But, the nature of balance means there's no swiss-army knife class.

I certainly don't see a problem with allowing people to cap a screen shot of their killer. You don't have to. It's just an option. Not sure why it's upset you so much.

As with your last part - what do you think people coming over from TF2 are going to notice when they visit these forums? Anything to make them feel inclined to jump ship? There are some people who've no doubt put off many many people, and that's unfortunate, because as other people have mentioned - FF is one of the most polished/stable mods for HL2 out there. And it's fun. To have arrogance kill that has gotta be so frustrating.

[Ihmhi]

I do not mind TF2 catering to the general public, but where's the room for growth? What are you going to master, shotgun aim? The shitty low powered rocket jumps?

FF, you can do most of the stuff you can in TF2 - it does not look as pretty, but any idiot attracted to a game solely by its graphics would not last 2 minutes on a pub.

I like FF over TF2 because they are trying to cater to everybody - hints, tutorials, guides, and a better team of support people than Valve. And once you get the basics down, if you want to learn how to do some really cool shit you can.