01-10-2011, 09:35 AM | #1 | |
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Reason why we shouldn't be donating to WikiLeaks
Read an article presenting a challenge to WikiLeak's credibility:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread634835/pg1 Quote:
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01-10-2011, 10:10 AM | #2 |
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tl;dr
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01-10-2011, 09:41 PM | #3 |
AKA LittleAndroidMan
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Battery:
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01-11-2011, 01:41 AM | #4 |
Fear teh crowbar.
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http://www.collateralmurder.com/
There's a video that shows that some of what Assange is attempting has merit. People need to know this shit. Do I fault the pilots? Yes, but only to a point though. I don't know when that video was recorded, nor do I know the circumstances before the guncam started recording. I imagine these men had probably cause to assume there were badguys in the way. I also know for a fact that in combat, you don't have the luxury of waiting for someone to ID themselves as friend, foe, or neutral. Watch the full vid if you want, it's graphic, but it shows that there were noncombatants in that mix, including two AP journalists. They are casualties, collateral damage in eliminating armed individuals and to be honest, they should have kept clear from armed band roaming a combat zone. Sad that it happened, but it does happen. But see, this also works on the idea of misinformation, because this video was shortened and edited, removing the portions showing armed men walking along beside the journalists, nor does it show the guy peeking around the corner with the RPG. I don't think wikileaks is responsible for the misinformation but rather is the source of the info that gets distorted to present whatever picture media wants. We need transparency, otherwise we won't know we're fucked until its too late. We also need to make sure the badguys can't take the info and use it to their advantage. Sometimes that isn't possible, so we need to be prepared to defend ourselves when it does. |
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01-11-2011, 03:20 AM | #5 | |
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"Collateral Damage" is the PC way of saying "Murdered".
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01-11-2011, 03:54 AM | #6 |
Fear teh crowbar.
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I don't disagree.
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01-12-2011, 12:25 AM | #7 |
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If I had a penny for every time I've seen this quagmire-spawning statement come to life in a thread...
Hopefully your comment lives and dies alone as I don't think it adds anything helpful or clarifying to the thread.
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01-12-2011, 02:25 AM | #8 | |
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Thanks, I love you too.
I guess you think it's just fine to kill civilians? Combatants at least have a means to defend themselves, civilians generally do not.
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01-12-2011, 02:35 AM | #9 |
AKA LittleAndroidMan
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War is ugly, that justifies our senseless murder of tens of thousands of civilians. Duh.
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01-12-2011, 07:22 AM | #10 | |
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I think the reason why the US military chooses not to kill civilians is that we believe that wars should not get too ugly unless the situation is desperate. Americans are willing to pay the extra war debt in exchange for feeling good about being a merciful conqueror. But make no mistake, should the United States of America gets invaded, this country will fire H-bombs at any major city. It does not matter if the invaders are conducting warfare according to the Geneva Conventions. Want to save your fellow countrymen from the horror of war? I have a suggestion. Forget about all those fictional laws of wars and stick to the basic plan: strengthen your own national defense. |
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01-12-2011, 08:19 AM | #11 |
AKA LittleAndroidMan
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Gee, that's funny. We spend more money on 'defense' than the entire world combined, and we're in a state of perpetual war.
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01-12-2011, 08:27 AM | #12 |
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Offense is the new defense. Nothing says defending your country like blowing up brown people.
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01-12-2011, 09:13 AM | #13 | |
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Iraq made a mistake and insisted on bluffing. The prices? Tens of thousands civilians dead, disintegration of entire army. Collapse of economy. America paid much less for its mistakes because wars happen offshore, but never near homeland. Our national defense almost guarantees that our homes will not burn in the flames of ordnance for the next half century, no matter what stupid mistakes we make... Last edited by battery; 01-12-2011 at 09:14 AM. |
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01-12-2011, 09:27 AM | #14 |
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You never explain your terms. Reading your posts is like listening to white noise. There's no context behind them. It's like you're trying to explain something esoteric to me, in the same style, but at the same time, you're not stating anything esoteric. It's equivalent to someone talking to you, face-to-face, and you're talking at me, but you're looking around. Reading your posts kinda feels like that.
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01-12-2011, 09:33 AM | #15 |
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We have that level of defense because we've been raping countries left and right. That level of defense is highly unnecessary if you aren't going around the world terrorizing countries and creating enemies at every opportunity. So, what are you trying to say? It's always so vague, like I'm supposed to put on a monocle and stare at your post with a magnifying glass until enlightenment kicks in.
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01-12-2011, 11:33 AM | #16 |
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America has a long and glorious history of slaughtering civilians, I don't see why they should stop now.
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01-12-2011, 07:26 PM | #17 | |
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There is more than enough political support in America to start a conflict with Iran as we speak. Why haven't we? Because Iranian defense force is just too good. Admit it! America doesn't dare to touch Iran despite its nuclear ambition, not because there is no desire to do so, but because it is incapable. If you were an Iranian, you would be glad that your country will get away with building nukes, so that in the future, no foreigners can come in to bomb your homes and rape your women. Wars occur because there are imbalances in military powers. The conquers and the conquered are both at fault for the armed conflict. America can "terrorize countries and create enemies at every opportunity" because the world allows it. I guess America wouldn't be so audacious if the Middle East has done what Israel has accomplished - establishing a decent military force. |
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01-12-2011, 08:39 PM | #18 | ||
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Also, the best "national defense" is a well armed populous, however, that defense force is one that the government would prefer not to have, considering that it could lead to a civil war.
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01-13-2011, 12:39 AM | #19 | |
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I would point out that simply telling you that I disagree with you does not mean that I think it's fine to kill civilians. Feel free to conflate from there.
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01-13-2011, 01:05 AM | #20 | |||
Fear teh crowbar.
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Why aren't we in Iran? It doesn't pay. Not only will we have to fight, and massacre, the million or so conscripts the Iranian army would throw at us, but then we would have an entire country in an Islamic fueled uprising. War is, and has always been, about profit, about gaining something. When one country attacks another it's because the aggressor wants something the other has. There is a lot of oil in Iran; there's also a lot in Saudi Arabia. Why not just offer a pact of defense to the Saudis, get some cheap oil when we the time comes and kick the dog shit out of anyone who so much puts a toe out of line? I'm not saying that's what is happening now, but it is a much more lucrative option than spending another few trillion on an unpopular war. |
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