Usage of Spy's gas grenades

[battery]

Camping at enemy sniper deck is part of Medic's duty in 2fort. Some people on this forum believe that offense should only assault the flag. They think medics and scouts should do nothing else than to run into the flag room and get slaughtered by heavy defense there. Very narrow-sighted.

Medics, Scouts, and Spies cannot take the flag unless enemy defense is broken. To do that, they need the help of Soldiers, HWGuys, Demomen, and Pyros. These slower classes typically have trouble getting across that bridge due to sniper threats. Medics, Demomen and Scouts are the only classes with access to sniper deck! (Soldiers can rocket jump only AFTER crossing the bridge). So, yes, the primary duty of medic is to deny enemy snipers control of the front. They should stay there so that the heavier class can cross mid-map, and wreck havocs on enemy defense! Only then should medics go for the flag.

40% of my time as medic is spent in anti-sniper operations. I conc jump from water, releasing frag grenades even before I land on the sniper deck (think of me as a bomber jet). I then kill the snipers. After the deck is clear. I STAY THERE to make sure the deck stays clear. I stay there until I die. I repeat this over and over again until my teammates literally walk all over their base. Once this is achieved, grabbing flag become easy.

I believe that's the proper way to play medic.
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Marijuana Vaporizer

[Phisionary]

Thankfully, few admins seem to have issues with playing Medic just about any way you want. That's good; I am really annoyed by snipers -- I play medic as a counter-annoyance, sometimes. Similarly for Pyro. That doesn't stop me from playing sniper either (moreso the fact I'm not a great sniper). Getting bugged by something, well, thats just the way things are. If you don't like it, kill 'em.

Of course, I'm not a clan player, or a league player, and I don't come from TFC as anything other than a casual player from the very early days of the game. I'm just getting into bhop, concing, effective engy play, and other more advanced aspects of FF. Sometimes I just like to get in a brawl and cause chaos. Competitive players might have a different perspective.

Well, when it comes down to it, I'd just be happy if server ops were more hesitant to throw down punishments (or threats of them) just because a player uses the weapons in the game in a fairly ruthless way. I think it's all part of the game. Unless that aspect of server policy is clearly and explicitly stated in the MOTD, or better, in on-screen messages, then they should just let things go. But the 'I'll ban you if you don't stop spamming' or 'I'll ban you if you use that Detpack' just bugs me. It is infrequently me that these threats are directed towards, but I've been the victum of this type of attacks and don't take it that seriously. Unless you are a stats-whore or are trying to do clan-style D&A style practice (and why do that on a pub, really), then admins should just chill and let people play.

[battery]

Here are some funny warning I got from numerous public servers:

"Don't build sentry outside of your own base. It's made of defense only."
"Det pack is for blowing grate and doors. Don't abuse it"
"Don't do exploits like EMP doing dmg thru walls"
"Anytime you are not aimming your nade, you are spamming."
"Demo, please don't pipe the gate. Either enter my base or bug off"
"Don't use teleporter to guard flag. Move it or I call my buddy admin."

Oh this one is even more ludicrous LOL
"If you are on offense, don't shoot enemy offense crossing mid-field. Move along!"


These people play TFC in an extremely prescribed manner. Either you camp your own flag, or your try to grab the flag. Anything else is unnessary distraction. They don't realize D & A style of play is just one of many, many strategies. They become highly irritated when you deviate from the strict style of play. This is because to counter your new tactic, they too have to deviate from their "actual gameplay".

So what do they do? First thing they try is to brand you as a jerk. If that doesn't work still, they pretend to be a close friend of the server admin and threaten to ban you. Sadly, these measures are pretty shallow, and rarely fool anyone.
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Mature rimming

[Desyphur]

Well that's a clanstyle attitude, sadly =/

[Phisionary]

I've heard that kind of thing before. It's silly.

I've played on both sN and NFO servers (almost exclusively, really), sometimes their members don't like certain tactics to be used (No offense to either server or any of their members, respectively, I think they are wonderful servers and are often quite active). I'm not going to push my luck on any of the few active FF servers that are our there, but I still often disagree with their reasoning.

OTOH, I played a 'no midmapping' server (the 'don't shoot the offense' thing you mentioned). It was interesting, a very different dynamic than the type of game you get on the average pub. Fairly fun. But it is like having FF on (what an unfortunate conflict of acronyms :-\ ), it might be interesting but I wouldn't like it all the time.

[TurboWolf]

I dislike some of those clanstyle rules, some are absurd:
I was as medic chasing down a scout who was running with our flag, and I got banned for that. No warnings, not kicked, just banned. I couldn't see any rule saying "It's forbidden to shoot the flag carrier while being O" either.
I really think some server admins are EXTREMELY mean and just ban people for fun, and I'd say that's some kind of mental disorder. Luckily, there are also reasonable admins with wide more thinking capacity who may help you in those cases .

Back in topic, spamming spawns is just gay and you need no skill at all to do this. I've read many posts here explaining why is it bad, so I won't explain it again. Open your mind, does it really help your team win? And does sniping from conc exit really help your team? Snipers should always be a support class and shouldn't block the real classes.
Oh, and based on your logic, I could point out that in TF2 you can shoose demoman and lay sticky bombs in 2fort's spawn and keep the whole enemy team stuck there. Yes, your team would certainly get a lot of flags (intels?) in that time, especially if there are several demomen in their spawns and just one scout getting their flag. But I don't think that's a nice way to play the game.

[Desyphur]

^Fully agreed.

[Firefox11]

Originally Posted by TurboWolf

I dislike some of those clanstyle rules, some are absurd:
I was as medic chasing down a scout who was running with our flag, and I got banned for that. No warnings, not kicked, just banned. I couldn't see any rule saying "It's forbidden to shoot the flag carrier while being O" either.
I really think some server admins are EXTREMELY mean and just ban people for fun, and I'd say that's some kind of mental disorder. Luckily, there are also reasonable admins with wide more thinking capacity who may help you in those cases .

It's a pain if you end in a server with clanstyle rules if you are used to another playing style (the usual "follow the flagcarrier to his CP if it's necessary" and so) but there's nothing you can do about it sadly, unless you change the server, so the best choice is to ask for rules when entering the server and try to stay inside the limits. I don't like servers with Friendly Fire because I play Pyro often, and you all know that is one of the most collateral damaging classes, but well, thei server their rules =D

Originally Posted by TurboWolf

Back in topic, spamming spawns is just gay and you need no skill at all to do this. I've read many posts here explaining why is it bad, so I won't explain it again. Open your mind, does it really help your team win? And does sniping from conc exit really help your team? Snipers should always be a support class and shouldn't block the real classes.

I won't say that spamming is a valid tactic, but spamming the enemy spawn is beneficial for your team... If the enemy can't get out, they will never defend their flag or capture yours. In fact, it's "Dustbowl style maps Gate opening" to the maximum extent (but doesn't mean that it to ins't a non-sportmanship tactic and VERY lame).

On that note, ff_dm suffers from this in public games due to the lack of alternate exits and the small spawn - the game usually is a constant spam from one team against the other teams' spawn. If you add EMPs to the mix... You get the point. Maybe it could be adressed in another version of FF?

Originally Posted by TurboWolf

Oh, and based on your logic, I could point out that in TF2 you can shoose demoman and lay sticky bombs in 2fort's spawn and keep the whole enemy team stuck there. Yes, your team would certainly get a lot of flags (intels?) in that time, especially if there are several demomen in their spawns and just one scout getting their flag. But I don't think that's a nice way to play the game.

That's why TF2 fails and FF don't. No grenades = No EMPs = No reliable way to "unblock" your spawn. (And don't come with the "Stickies can be shot off with explosives" because its not THAT hard to unload more Stickies while a Soldier blows one or two away)

[SWAMPTHING360]

to make a point...if you act like a cunt your gonna get banned plain and simple

99% of all server tfc,ff and tf2 will not allow people spamming the spawns

that 1% is for people like battrey to spam the crap out of a map and get kills the kidish way

[binky]

As long as we are discussing spawn spam, "chasing" ect, I am curious as to what the general community ettiquite is for attacking somebody if they retreat to their spawn/secure ressuply?
one admin I asked said it was not allowed to spam resupply doors or even to toss errant nades or fire there, but that it was perfectly ok to fire at somebody retreating to a spawn, is this generally how everybody feels about it?
Fighter classes such as soldier that retreat to a spawn during combat is one of the only things that annoys me in these games.

- Morgoth the newb who killed you

[Desyphur]

I don't like it when people run back to spawn while fighting me, it's irritating.

[battery]

Originally Posted by Desyphur

I don't like it when people run back to spawn while fighting me, it's irritating.

It irritates you and it reduces the amount the fun you get from the game. Plus, running back to the spawn doesn't contribute to his team, since he could have finish you off instead. Running like this is against sportsmanship -- not nice. It is frown upon just like nade spamming. Therefore it is lame.

Can you see what you are getting at? You can apply the same process over and over again. Sooner or later, anything that does not please you become unsportmanlike.

I admire your tendency to assert yourself (as in: right or wrong? I might think over it later. I speak what I feel is right at the moment). But realize that it doesn't work on everybody. The moment you encounter another guy with even more assertiveness, you fail. You will have to change tactics.

If everyone's opinion matters, then no can do anything in the game. What we need is not opinions. We need authority and laws. Today I want to be nice and refrain from using dirty tactics. Tomorrow, I might want to do whatever necessary and legal to win the game. My mood matters as much as other people's opinions. I don't want to play FF just to please people. I want to have my fun too! I just want to be devious sometimes. I think the only boundary I should consider is server rules.

Why it that I have to ensure someone else is having fun at the expense of my own fun? Must I do that in every FF game?
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STRAIN INDEX

[Agent Buckshot Moose]

I hope FF winds up with a "bare minimum" style of rules for clan matches. Honestly the only thing I think that should be enforced is a max defense limit for CTF maps and class limits on certain maps (but that's up to the mapper to decide anyway). Anything other than that is perfectly fine in my book.

The reason I support a max defense limit is because, let's face it, playing a map like shutdown2 against 9 defense is just boring.

[paranoidkirb]

How is running back to spawn unsportsmanlike? It's not a dirty tactic at all. If anything, it's just a cowardly retreat. Desyphur never even said it was unsportsmanlike. He just said it irritated him. It's not really even frowned upon. I don't know of anyone that would ban me for running into spawn when I have low health and am being fired at whereas I know tons of people who would ban me for spamming the spawn doors with grenades.

Why it that I have to ensure someone else is having fun at the expense of my own fun? Must I do that in every FF game?

Yes. Spawn-blocking with SG's may be fun for you. Spamming gas nades at enemies' spawns may be fun for you. Team-infecting may be fun for you (though this isn't a problem anymore). It's not fun for anyone else though. Remember, this game's playerbase is fairly weak. Any new players are greatly welcomed. But more than that, we need them to continue to play. Gay tactics that make the game less fun will drive them away.

[Desyphur]

Originally Posted by battery

It irritates you and it reduces the amount the fun you get from the game. Plus, running back to the spawn doesn't contribute to his team, since he could have finish you off instead. Running like this is against sportsmanship -- not nice. It is frown upon just like nade spamming. Therefore it is lame.

Can you see what you are getting at? You can apply the same process over and over again. Sooner or later, anything that does not please you become unsportmanlike.

Actually, you're wrong here. Never did I call it unsportmanlike, I simply said it was irritating to me.

[BinaryLife]

I find it irritating as well. But again, not unsportsmanlike. I consider it an advantage of the Defense to be near their respawn. If I'm going for the flag and I've chased him in there, I can just run past and keep going.

Granted, I don't get the pleasure of killing him. But that's why it's annoying. If I'm matched against someone I like to see it through. Most of the time I wont run back into my repsawn unless I walk out and get spammed by someone who is long gone. It's an honor thing. Not everyone has honor, or the same definition of honor.

Also, he didn't say "unpsortsmanlike"

[Meathook]

Originally Posted by paranoidkirb

Spawn-blocking with SG's may be fun for you. Spamming gas nades at enemies' spawns may be fun for you. Team-infecting may be fun for you (though this isn't a problem anymore).

Wow, way to link killing the enemy with tactics you dont care for with team griefing. You should run for political office.

[Desyphur]

Originally Posted by Meathook

Wow, way to link killing the enemy with tactics you dont care for with team griefing. You should run for political office.

Actually, he's not really linking griefing, he's just covering all his bases. When I first read it I thought he meant puttiong a sentry infront of the enemys spawn so it kills them.

[battery]

I didn't explicitely state that you said fleeing to spawn is unsportmanlike. I was just trying to move one step ahead. My intention was to warn you not to go that far. Regardless, I was at fault for the misunderstanding, and for that I sincerely apologize.
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No2 Vaporizer Reviews

[battery]

It's very important to note that blocking your own team's spawn is considered glitching. The programmers intend to disallow sentry gun inside spawn area, and thus they program a restricted area there. Unfortunately, their code was not perfect, and sentry can still be built in that restricted area. Mygot members and other griefers make use of that glitch to rage the server. Glitching is a violation against the EULA. If you exploit glitch on TFC, Valve has the right to treat you like a regular cheater.

Putting nades in front of spawn is a different matter. It's allowed by design. There is no mechanism set to prevent players from dropping nades in front of enemy spawn doors. Some people consider this as lame tactic.

Glitching and lame tactics are different things. Glitching is against the law of the game, while lame tactics are not. Lame tacitcs are not illegal unless the server admin forbids them. Glitching is a bannable offense whether the server admin allows it or not.

I advocate dirty tactics, but I am against cheating or glitching.
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