Fortress Forever

Go Back   Fortress Forever > Community > Communities, Leagues, Clans and Guilds

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-26-2013, 06:22 PM   #21
9u-9u-9u
Beta Tester
 
9u-9u-9u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Class/Position: Demoman
Gametype: pipe spawn
Posts Rated Helpful 124 Times
Quote:
Most Kills in a Round (Offense)
could we add record slots for most kills on offense for each class?

Last edited by 9u-9u-9u; 06-26-2013 at 06:22 PM.
9u-9u-9u is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 06-26-2013, 07:02 PM   #22
KubeDawg
Nade Whore
Server Owner
Beta Tester
 
KubeDawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Oklahoma
Class/Position: Scout/Soldier
Gametype: CTF/TDM
Affiliations: blunt. Moto
Posts Rated Helpful 128 Times
Yaay now I know just how shitty a pickup player I am. woooo
__________________
Moto's Funhouse | Dallas, TX - 74.91.114.247:27015

ff_plunder - Complete
KubeDawg is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 06-26-2013, 08:10 PM   #23
ddm999
worst ff player eu
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: South Yorks., England
Class/Position: o - no, d - scout
Gametype: IvDZ
Posts Rated Helpful 18 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9u-9u-9u View Post
could we add record slots for most kills on offense for each class?
Well, the only classes really played on offence is Scout and Medic, and they aren't played on defence really. :P

I suppose a defence Medic could sort of mess it up a bit.
__________________
gg ff not ded
ff very much alive
ddm999 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 06-26-2013, 08:29 PM   #24
squeek.
Stuff Do-er
Lua Team
Wiki Team
Fortress Forever Staff
 
squeek.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northern California
Class/Position: Rallygun Shooter
Gametype: Conc tag (you just wait)
Affiliations: Mustache Brigade
Posts Rated Helpful 348 Times
Send a message via AIM to squeek.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddm999 View Post
What are the requirements for Average Class Choice Frequency's?

For example, I have played Scout on Offence for 99.81% (up 7.02% of the record), and Engineer on Defence for 90.54% (up 10.08% of the record), yet I don't have these records presumably due to me not playing enough games. :P

I'm also tied with Juice for average kills as Scout, so I'd assume that has a requirement too.
There's no set-in-stone requirement. It uses a Bayesian average to determine the highest record and then displays the real average. For the Bayesian average, I basically just add an arbitrary amount to the total (I'm using a C of 7 for the most part) before calculating the average, which means that the lower the total, the lower the Bayesian average will be. Let's say you play scout for 9 out of 10 pickups (real average: .90; with a C of 7, that gives a Bayesian average of 9/17 or .529), and another person plays scout 40/50 pickups (real average: .80; with a C of 7, that gives a Bayesian average of 40/57 or .702). The 40/50 pickups is then set as the record because we are much more confident that it's a real statistic rather than a fluke that would change if more pickups were played.

Now, given that, for some of these records it might make sense to not use a Bayesian average or to lower the C. Class choice could be one of those, but if it gets lowered too much it could open up the possibility of one person playing like 5 pickups, only playing scout on O, and then disappearing, making the record 100% and therefore impossible to beat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 9u-9u-9u
could we add record slots for most kills on offense for each class?
Could do. I'm assuming you'd like to see stats for O demo/soli/engi?
__________________
Support FF:
#FF.Pickup Fortress-Forever pickups

My Non-official Maps
Released FF_DM_Squeek - FF_2Mesa3_Classic - FF_Siege_Classic
Beta FF_Myth - FF_Redlight_Greenlight

Sick of the people on the internet, always moanin'. They just moan.
- Karl Pilkington

Last edited by squeek.; 06-26-2013 at 09:46 PM.
squeek. is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 06-26-2013, 09:29 PM   #25
squeek.
Stuff Do-er
Lua Team
Wiki Team
Fortress Forever Staff
 
squeek.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northern California
Class/Position: Rallygun Shooter
Gametype: Conc tag (you just wait)
Affiliations: Mustache Brigade
Posts Rated Helpful 348 Times
Send a message via AIM to squeek.
Made it so that if you hover over the values of the personal best and all-time record on a player's page it will show the Bayesian average.
__________________
Support FF:
#FF.Pickup Fortress-Forever pickups

My Non-official Maps
Released FF_DM_Squeek - FF_2Mesa3_Classic - FF_Siege_Classic
Beta FF_Myth - FF_Redlight_Greenlight

Sick of the people on the internet, always moanin'. They just moan.
- Karl Pilkington
squeek. is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 06-27-2013, 01:09 AM   #26
aleXtric
#FF.Pickup Dictator
Beta Tester
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Detroit
Gametype: ADL
Affiliations: KiNGz .
Posts Rated Helpful 100 Times
im looking at them now and i see records that have dropped dramatically. like most teamkills "9" for defense. Is it only tracking daily rather than all time?
__________________
!add
#FF.Pickup - Quakenet

http://www.ffpickup.com/?p=irc
aleXtric is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 06-27-2013, 02:41 AM   #27
squeek.
Stuff Do-er
Lua Team
Wiki Team
Fortress Forever Staff
 
squeek.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northern California
Class/Position: Rallygun Shooter
Gametype: Conc tag (you just wait)
Affiliations: Mustache Brigade
Posts Rated Helpful 348 Times
Send a message via AIM to squeek.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aleXtric View Post
im looking at them now and i see records that have dropped dramatically. like most teamkills "9" for defense. Is it only tracking daily rather than all time?
I broke it temporarily; it was replacing all the records each round with only the stats from that round. Should all be back to normal now.
__________________
Support FF:
#FF.Pickup Fortress-Forever pickups

My Non-official Maps
Released FF_DM_Squeek - FF_2Mesa3_Classic - FF_Siege_Classic
Beta FF_Myth - FF_Redlight_Greenlight

Sick of the people on the internet, always moanin'. They just moan.
- Karl Pilkington

Last edited by squeek.; 06-27-2013 at 02:41 AM.
squeek. is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 06-27-2013, 04:07 PM   #28
9u-9u-9u
Beta Tester
 
9u-9u-9u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Class/Position: Demoman
Gametype: pipe spawn
Posts Rated Helpful 124 Times
Quote:
Average Kills (Offense) 5.97
could we make it only calculate average O kills for all offensive classes that are not scout since scout isn't a DM class?


could we make a stat for improvements in average kills or just "greatest improvement"? since new people will start with a lower average so will always have one no matter how much they improve
9u-9u-9u is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 06-27-2013, 08:25 PM   #29
squeek.
Stuff Do-er
Lua Team
Wiki Team
Fortress Forever Staff
 
squeek.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northern California
Class/Position: Rallygun Shooter
Gametype: Conc tag (you just wait)
Affiliations: Mustache Brigade
Posts Rated Helpful 348 Times
Send a message via AIM to squeek.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9u-9u-9u View Post
could we make it only calculate average O kills for all offensive classes that are not scout since scout isn't a DM class?


could we make a stat for improvements in average kills or just "greatest improvement"? since new people will start with a lower average so will always have one no matter how much they improve
I think I'll be able to track changes in records and personal bests once I finish up what I'm doing. Once I get the foundational stuff done, I'll fix up any wonky records (SG upgrade efficiency in a round needs to be reworked as well since many people have 100%) and add new ones.

You're right about average O kills, didn't think about that. Maybe I should just get rid of all the average/most kills by class and switch them to average/most kills (offense) by class and average/most kills (defense) by class.
__________________
Support FF:
#FF.Pickup Fortress-Forever pickups

My Non-official Maps
Released FF_DM_Squeek - FF_2Mesa3_Classic - FF_Siege_Classic
Beta FF_Myth - FF_Redlight_Greenlight

Sick of the people on the internet, always moanin'. They just moan.
- Karl Pilkington
squeek. is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 06-28-2013, 02:06 AM   #30
squeek.
Stuff Do-er
Lua Team
Wiki Team
Fortress Forever Staff
 
squeek.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northern California
Class/Position: Rallygun Shooter
Gametype: Conc tag (you just wait)
Affiliations: Mustache Brigade
Posts Rated Helpful 348 Times
Send a message via AIM to squeek.
I think I got leaderboards for each record working. Let me know if you find anything weird:

http://parser.ffpickup.com/v2/records/

Example:
http://parser.ffpickup.com/v2/record...yclass_demoman
__________________
Support FF:
#FF.Pickup Fortress-Forever pickups

My Non-official Maps
Released FF_DM_Squeek - FF_2Mesa3_Classic - FF_Siege_Classic
Beta FF_Myth - FF_Redlight_Greenlight

Sick of the people on the internet, always moanin'. They just moan.
- Karl Pilkington
squeek. is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 06-28-2013, 02:23 AM   #31
9u-9u-9u
Beta Tester
 
9u-9u-9u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Class/Position: Demoman
Gametype: pipe spawn
Posts Rated Helpful 124 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by squeek. View Post
Maybe I should just get rid of all the average/most kills by class and switch them to average/most kills (offense) by class and average/most kills (defense) by class.
ah that's even better i like that idea

then we could also see the top DM scout
9u-9u-9u is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 06-28-2013, 03:05 PM   #32
ddm999
worst ff player eu
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: South Yorks., England
Class/Position: o - no, d - scout
Gametype: IvDZ
Posts Rated Helpful 18 Times
Kinda sucks that to get a record you really need to have played a lot of pickups to get the time to overrule the Bayesian average (e.g. I've played 5000 time (seconds?) in pickups (on offence), I've got 99.8% played as Scout but 'cause of I've only played 5000 time, it gets shoved way down to 45.29% :L), but I guess it makes sense. Doubt I'm gonna get Average Class Choice: Offence Scout when the two people in first have 170,000 time played just on offence...

But seen as the highest time played on offence is 2.6 times that, that's not that high, really.
__________________
gg ff not ded
ff very much alive
ddm999 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 06-28-2013, 07:07 PM   #33
squeek.
Stuff Do-er
Lua Team
Wiki Team
Fortress Forever Staff
 
squeek.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northern California
Class/Position: Rallygun Shooter
Gametype: Conc tag (you just wait)
Affiliations: Mustache Brigade
Posts Rated Helpful 348 Times
Send a message via AIM to squeek.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddm999 View Post
Kinda sucks that to get a record you really need to have played a lot of pickups to get the time to overrule the Bayesian average (e.g. I've played 5000 time (seconds?) in pickups (on offence), I've got 99.8% played as Scout but 'cause of I've only played 5000 time, it gets shoved way down to 45.29% :L), but I guess it makes sense. Doubt I'm gonna get Average Class Choice: Offence Scout when the two people in first have 170,000 time played just on offence...

But seen as the highest time played on offence is 2.6 times that, that's not that high, really.
You're right, I might need to rethink the Bayesian average. I realized that I'm not even calculating the Bayesian average correctly, so it might work better if I fix that. You're meant to do (global average of time played on offense * global average of scout as offensive class choice + sum of time played as scout) / (global average of time played on offense + total time played on offense), which might change things, and make each Bayesian average proportional to the dataset rather than fairly arbitrary.
__________________
Support FF:
#FF.Pickup Fortress-Forever pickups

My Non-official Maps
Released FF_DM_Squeek - FF_2Mesa3_Classic - FF_Siege_Classic
Beta FF_Myth - FF_Redlight_Greenlight

Sick of the people on the internet, always moanin'. They just moan.
- Karl Pilkington

Last edited by squeek.; 06-28-2013 at 08:34 PM.
squeek. is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 07-02-2013, 07:49 PM   #34
ddm999
worst ff player eu
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: South Yorks., England
Class/Position: o - no, d - scout
Gametype: IvDZ
Posts Rated Helpful 18 Times
The Bayesian average seems to be unusually low on Engineer records. :P

I've not played a lot of pickup games, but my average SG uptime is reduced from 49% to 20%, meaning it must be about 10%, which can't be right, can it?
Also:

Average SG kills: My record is 20, with average is 8, must be about 4,
Average SG upgrade efficiency: My record is 35%, with average is 28%, must be about 20%,
Average Engineer kills: My record is 30, with average is 12, must be about 6,
Average kills on D: My record is 26, with average is 12, must be about 4?

All these records seem unusually low to say the Bayesian average is meant to make it more, well, average...

How do you get less than 4 kills on defence? Is that even possible?
__________________
gg ff not ded
ff very much alive
ddm999 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 07-02-2013, 11:45 PM   #35
squeek.
Stuff Do-er
Lua Team
Wiki Team
Fortress Forever Staff
 
squeek.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northern California
Class/Position: Rallygun Shooter
Gametype: Conc tag (you just wait)
Affiliations: Mustache Brigade
Posts Rated Helpful 348 Times
Send a message via AIM to squeek.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddm999 View Post
The Bayesian average seems to be unusually low on Engineer records. :P

I've not played a lot of pickup games, but my average SG uptime is reduced from 49% to 20%, meaning it must be about 10%, which can't be right, can it?
Also:

Average SG kills: My record is 20, with average is 8, must be about 4,
Average SG upgrade efficiency: My record is 35%, with average is 28%, must be about 20%,
Average Engineer kills: My record is 30, with average is 12, must be about 6,
Average kills on D: My record is 26, with average is 12, must be about 4?

All these records seem unusually low to say the Bayesian average is meant to make it more, well, average...

How do you get less than 4 kills on defence? Is that even possible?
I haven't fixed the records to use a real Bayesian average yet, and I'm not totally sure I will. I lowered the constant of the Class Choice Percent records and am sort of regretting it; Wicked_Clown now has the offensive scout class choice record with 100% chosen in only ~21 rounds of offense played, making it a nearly unbeatable record if Wicked_Clown stops playing at this point. What I'm using the Bayesian average for is not to make it more average, it is to make outliers or unsustainable records not able to be the record holders in average categories. It's meant to make the records more consistent or meaningful, not more average.

You've only played the time equivalent of 5 rounds as engineer. The purpose of sorting by Bayesian average is to make it so even if you have 100% SG uptime in those 5 rounds, the system assumes that record is unsustainable. If the records were sorted purely by the real average and you held the record with 100% SG uptime and 5 pickups played, to keep that record you'd actually be encouraged to stop playing. The record couldn't realistically be improved, and the only thing that playing more would do is drive that record down. With the current system of Bayesian averaging, playing more actually increases the value of the record even if you aren't increasing your real average (in fact, you could even be decreasing it).

The current constant I'm using might be rewarding time played a bit too heavily, but I don't think by very much. Just so you know, the constant (C) I'm using right now is 7. The formula for each record is essentially:

(sum or count of relevant values) / (sum or count of relevant total + C)

I scale the C depending on the scale of the value/total as well, like for things that use sum of time played, I use 7*900 (900 seconds = 15 minutes, or one round).
__________________
Support FF:
#FF.Pickup Fortress-Forever pickups

My Non-official Maps
Released FF_DM_Squeek - FF_2Mesa3_Classic - FF_Siege_Classic
Beta FF_Myth - FF_Redlight_Greenlight

Sick of the people on the internet, always moanin'. They just moan.
- Karl Pilkington

Last edited by squeek.; 07-02-2013 at 11:53 PM.
squeek. is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 07-03-2013, 12:07 AM   #36
Sabbath
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Gametype: Capture the Flag
Posts Rated Helpful 7 Times
cut that nerd talk out
Sabbath is offline   Reply With Quote


1 members found this post helpful.
Old 07-03-2013, 01:56 AM   #37
WiFiDi
Beta Tester
 
WiFiDi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Class/Position: Soldier
Gametype: Capture the Flag is there any other
Posts Rated Helpful 26 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabbath View Post
cut that nerd talk out


__________________
WiFi's Stream
Support FF:
Failure is always an option.
It's a happy massacre?! (yes, yes it is!)
To make most awesome thing in universe combine Bears and Nicholas Cage!
and remember kids, we didn't start the flame-war!
WiFiDi is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 07-03-2013, 03:04 PM   #38
beees
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Gametype: Capture the Flag
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by squeek. View Post
I haven't fixed the records to use a real Bayesian average yet, and I'm not totally sure I will. I lowered the constant of the Class Choice Percent records and am sort of regretting it; Wicked_Clown now has the offensive scout class choice record with 100% chosen in only ~21 rounds of offense played, making it a nearly unbeatable record if Wicked_Clown stops playing at this point. What I'm using the Bayesian average for is not to make it more average, it is to make outliers or unsustainable records not able to be the record holders in average categories. It's meant to make the records more consistent or meaningful, not more average.

You've only played the time equivalent of 5 rounds as engineer. The purpose of sorting by Bayesian average is to make it so even if you have 100% SG uptime in those 5 rounds, the system assumes that record is unsustainable. If the records were sorted purely by the real average and you held the record with 100% SG uptime and 5 pickups played, to keep that record you'd actually be encouraged to stop playing. The record couldn't realistically be improved, and the only thing that playing more would do is drive that record down. With the current system of Bayesian averaging, playing more actually increases the value of the record even if you aren't increasing your real average (in fact, you could even be decreasing it).

The current constant I'm using might be rewarding time played a bit too heavily, but I don't think by very much. Just so you know, the constant (C) I'm using right now is 7. The formula for each record is essentially:

(sum or count of relevant values) / (sum or count of relevant total + C)

I scale the C depending on the scale of the value/total as well, like for things that use sum of time played, I use 7*900 (900 seconds = 15 minutes, or one round).
Why aren't you summing an estimated average*C into the numerator
Isn't the formula bavg= (values + approxavg*C)/(C+numval)?
beees is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 07-03-2013, 04:15 PM   #39
Bayesian man
Protector of its people
 
Bayesian man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Gametype: Capture the Water Buffalo
Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times
White men have been using the name of our people for centuries in their mathematics without regard to the heritage, culture, or attainments of that which they steal from.

My Great-great-great Grandfather was one of the most respected men of our tribe in SouthEast Bayesia, he united the Ssengubar, Lutgeinkt, and Qw'sayloo clans in an effort to what led up to the last assualt of our race on the invading white man in the battle of Isandlwana.

That was the pinnacle of our battle with the white race and soon ended, because of succumbing in the later skirmishes to superior technology. The naming system your race often chooses to use is an unfortunate tactic in history, as the reason the Bayesians were defeated was the use of "white man's magic" or hence "his mathematic" of which the Bayesian forumulas were used in the artillery bombardments of 1882.

My people were honorable warriors, please respect them and their memory when using our name.
Bayesian man is offline   Reply With Quote


5 members found this post helpful.
Old 07-03-2013, 05:08 PM   #40
WiFiDi
Beta Tester
 
WiFiDi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Class/Position: Soldier
Gametype: Capture the Flag is there any other
Posts Rated Helpful 26 Times
^ i think its a spambot kill it
__________________
WiFi's Stream
Support FF:
Failure is always an option.
It's a happy massacre?! (yes, yes it is!)
To make most awesome thing in universe combine Bears and Nicholas Cage!
and remember kids, we didn't start the flame-war!
WiFiDi is offline   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
water buffalo


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.