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Old 03-30-2013, 03:10 AM   #1
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ff_sewers_b1

Hi,

I made another CTF map: 4v or possibly 3v. Let me know if you have any problems or would like to contribute some advice.

Thanks to everyone that helped (FDA & NeoNL).

I welcome any criticism and hope everyone enjoys my map.

Download Link: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/106003824/FFSewersB1.rar

Screenshots:
- Offensive Spawn -
- Main Entrance & Capture Point -
- Main Drains -
- Slant Side Drain Entrance -
- Slant Side Drain Middle 1 -
- Slant Side Drain Middle 2 -
- Slant Side Drain Exit, Connector, & Defensive Spawn -
- Ramp Side Drain Entrance -
- Ramp Side Drain Exit & Connector
- Flag Room -
- Defensive Spawn -
- Blue Base Entrance & Yard -
- Yard Middle -
- Red Base Entrance & Yard -

Map Summary: It's a DeathMatch heavy map, like Stowaway or Chimkeyz. So, three medics seems common in organized play. It's basically Capture the Flag without any security to worry about. No real gimmicks.

To Do:
+ Optimize the map.
+ Remove edges that players get caught on.
+ Remove player clip in yard.

So, please let me know what you think or if the links above don't work.

Also, huge thanks to FDA (TMNT Van Creator) and NeoNL for their help.
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Old 03-30-2013, 03:12 AM   #2
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Poopy mud, that's all.
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Old 03-30-2013, 03:50 AM   #3
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Was actually a lot more fun than I expected. Plays out a lot better than it looks. :P
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Old 03-30-2013, 02:57 PM   #4
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less env lighting more not env lighting.
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Old 03-30-2013, 03:03 PM   #5
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Here's some inspiration. Sorry for breaking your browser window.


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Old 04-03-2013, 02:20 AM   #6
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Reminds me of bloodtube. Yes... bloodtube.

Someone needs to remake bloodtube.
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Old 04-03-2013, 11:22 PM   #7
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Ok, so just played this on TALOS. Not a very good experience. Feedback:
  • So many edge clipping issues that screw up bunnyhopping. Offense spawn is probably the worst offender. Shouldn't have to jump to go up on to the bouncey thing.
  • The map is basically unplayable in a pub environment with a lot of people due to yard DM. Not that I'm specifically against yard DM, but with two little holes to get into the base, it's way too easy to shut down people in the yard and thus public servers, which are generally not very objective-oriented, become even less objective-oriented.
  • There should be more than one way into the base. It would greatly discourage yard DM.
  • Spawn teleporter. This may screw up the balance too much, but for heavy O classes it's obnoxious going to the enemy base.
  • Sniper should either be spawning in the O spawn, or turned off if an extra path to the enemy base is added.
  • Invisible wall in yard is confusing.

Edit: It should be noted that this was with about 14 people in a public server doing OvD. So not really optimal gameplay conditions.

Last edited by Agent Buckshot Moose; 04-03-2013 at 11:59 PM.
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Old 04-04-2013, 03:09 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent Buckshot Moose View Post
So many edge clipping issues that screw up bunnyhopping. Offense spawn is probably the worst offender. Shouldn't have to jump to go up on to the bouncey thing.
There are some edges I would like to try and remove, but the edge to the exit vent isn't one of them. I would prefer the map to be smoother overall, but that may take some geometrical tinkering that is beyond my patience and skill. I'll do my best to reduce the edges, though.
I don't want to change the vent because you can hop from spawn platform to the vent without getting stuck. It's kinda like the tunnel exit on Phantom where you jump from tunnel to the landing on the stairs to avoid getting caught in the water.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent Buckshot Moose View Post
The map is basically unplayable in a pub environment with a lot of people due to yard DM. Not that I'm specifically against yard DM, but with two little holes to get into the base, it's way too easy to shut down people in the yard and thus public servers, which are generally not very objective-oriented, become even less objective-oriented.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent Buckshot Moose View Post
There should be more than one way into the base. It would greatly discourage yard DM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent Buckshot Moose View Post
Spawn teleporter. This may screw up the balance too much, but for heavy O classes it's obnoxious going to the enemy base.
It is not really designed for pubs or large unorganized formats. So, yes the yard DM is an issue, but it's not really on my to-do list because it's a map geared towards organized play. The same goes for the spawn teleporter, sorry Offensive Heavies
I'll look into adding another entrance somewhere on the map. Maybe I can come up with something good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent Buckshot Moose View Post
Sniper should either be spawning in the O spawn, or turned off if an extra path to the enemy base is added.
Sniper is a defensive class in my mind, but that's another issue for another day. I guess it should be turned off to follow through with the organized theme of the map, but it's not allowed in current organized play so I doubt I'll be changing this either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent Buckshot Moose View Post
[*]Invisible wall in yard is confusing.
This was just a leftover that I mean to fix in a later version.

Yay, thanks for the feedback. I really do appreciate it. Also, thanks for everyone suffering through a pub game of it.
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Old 04-04-2013, 01:40 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homie in reboks' View Post
There are some edges I would like to try and remove, but the edge to the exit vent isn't one of them. I would prefer the map to be smoother overall, but that may take some geometrical tinkering that is beyond my patience and skill. I'll do my best to reduce the edges, though.
I found it usually occurred in the pipes (because they are raised up) and at the O spawn near the ladders. It may also be a problem in the flag room, but it's not as noticeable.

Quote:
I don't want to change the vent because you can hop from spawn platform to the vent without getting stuck. It's kinda like the tunnel exit on Phantom where you jump from tunnel to the landing on the stairs to avoid getting caught in the water.
What I meant is that you should be able to just walk on to the vent and the little raised platform it's on. The edge looks visually too low to require a jump. Is confusing.

Quote:
It is not really designed for pubs or large unorganized formats. So, yes the yard DM is an issue, but it's not really on my to-do list because it's a map geared towards organized play. The same goes for the spawn teleporter, sorry Offensive Heavies
I know it's not really a public map, but looking at other maps that are designed for competitive play, they are always somewhat playable on a public environment. The best ones even coerce the teams into playing the maps like they're supposed to be played and not devolving into midmap DM fests. Other competitive maps don't have the yard DM problem because you can conc past the people in the yard, use a water route, etc.

Quote:
I'll look into adding another entrance somewhere on the map. Maybe I can come up with something good.
Your map reminds me of one of my favorite TFC maps: bloodtube. Same closed-in space theme going on. That map has 4 entrances: the two main tubes that go between the bases, another tube that comes in at the rear of the base, a battlements entrance, and finally a hole in the ceiling near the flag room.

With 4 little holes that funnel into a single entrance, that choke point can be brutal--yard DM is a big problem. When you have to artificially enforce rules like no yard D, it's generally because the map itself has a flaw in the layout. While people might get pissed off at yard D on other maps (and thus ban it), those maps are still playable even with someone defending in the yard. Perhaps the primary passage between bases should be sewer tunnels at the O spawn which open into a wider area (yard which is harder to hold as a choke). The entrance to the base would still be closed-in, but via the pipe tunnels instead. The 4 holes in the top could stay, or maybe be rerouted into a fall-down tube that goes into the O spawn? Not really sure how this would affect the balance of the map, just some suggestions to lower the yard lockdown.

Quote:
Sniper is a defensive class in my mind, but that's another issue for another day. I guess it should be turned off to follow through with the organized theme of the map, but it's not allowed in current organized play so I doubt I'll be changing this either.
Sniper is a defensive class, but generally defends in the yard. That's why I suggested moving him to the offensive spawn. He shouldn't be turned off though, unless the map layout isn't really conducive to snipers.

Last edited by Agent Buckshot Moose; 04-04-2013 at 01:42 PM.
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Old 04-04-2013, 08:12 PM   #10
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Quote:
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Sniper is a defensive class, but generally defends in the yard.
See this is why the sniper needs entirely reworked or removed. Just glorified yard DM.
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Old 04-05-2013, 03:36 PM   #11
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Sniper and pyro are purely pub classes, they just don't fit in with the competitive CTF format
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Old 04-05-2013, 06:55 PM   #12
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Sniper and pyro are purely pub classes, they just don't fit in with the competitive CTF format
Pubbers don't like em either.
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Old 04-05-2013, 09:21 PM   #13
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Well removal isn't going to help because then you'll have all those TF2ers new to FF asking why there is no pyro or sniper classes and start a whole slew of new arguments. Better to fix than to remove IMO. Instead of a level 3 burn system like there is now, it should be more dynamic and based instead on how much time you are being burned.

For example, a burn meter could appear on your screen while being burned.
Flamethrower would cause the burn meter to increase the fastest, while napalm would be the slowest to increase that rate. And of course the rate at which the meter increases by would be stack-able by using multiple fire-based weapons. Once the meter is full or has reached a certain threshold, you would pretty much be melting/screaming your face off.

The values would of course need to be configured so it's balanced/not overpowered, but I think that would be the best way to fix the pyro.
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Old 04-05-2013, 11:25 PM   #14
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STOP THE HIJACK PLEASE. THANKS. THIS ABOUT MY MAP; NOT ABOUT FF CLASS BALANCE.
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Old 04-06-2013, 12:45 AM   #15
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LLOOL THREAD WAS HIJACKED ALREADY I WAS JUST PARTICIPATING IN THE ALREADY ESTABLISHED HIJACK

ps - oh and when DOESN'T a thread ever end up derailing into a topic about class changes?
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Old 04-10-2013, 03:30 AM   #16
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link is broken. snarkpit is a great site every map maker should use, at least until we get an updated website from rice.
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