Finol/Morello Interview

Tennovan · 08-21-2007, 04:09 PM

I just read an interesting interview with some Valve guys over at Shacknews this morning. In short...

Quote:

Today's interview is part of mod is Dead, a continuing series featuring an examination of user-created mods and an appraisal of the state of the mod community.

I know its been talked to death but one section I found interesting was their discussion on "Release soon. Release often." and how its good advice for those getting started in the mod scene.

Discuss...

http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=515

mistermojo · 08-21-2007, 04:18 PM

that is mixed advice, though. Back in the early days, yeah, there weren't that many games to play or new genres, so releasing something like Counter Strike or Team Fortress or Urban Terror would get people playing them

now, though, any mod you release that's not running and playing great is just going to lose members right away and people won't want to try it again after their first bad experience

Tennovan · 08-21-2007, 04:26 PM

I'm definitely not saying I agree with them -- I think both sides have very valid points as to why they should/shouldn't work better. They also mention that mod developers have set the bar so much higher than before, I guess in an attempt to rival commercial games. IMO, I think mod community has set the bar higher and the developers are just trying to keep up. I imagine this is one of the biggest reasons the mod scene is struggling so much.

GhOsT · 08-21-2007, 04:27 PM

It's more than just that. When TF and CS were released they were fresh, new ideas. They didn't have a past history to live up to.

If you have an original mod that people will find fun to play then release early/release often may work. Gary's mod is a modern example of this.

Etzell · 08-21-2007, 05:27 PM

Also, source mods take a billion years longer than HL1 mods did.

Coronius · 08-21-2007, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etzell

Also, source mods take a billion years longer than HL1 mods did.

Sepends on how complex it is, which is why he thinks you should start up with only core features implemented and implemented good, then after that you add more as you get feedback.

But as ghost said, its diffrent with FF since we have history to live up to.

And as said in the interview, some mod makers have to high ambitions, like to compete with CS, Halo, BF 2 etc (ff vs tf2, tfc). So alot of fail them fail. Where he thinks starting small and releasing a game with like 4-5 weapons 1 game mode and 3-4 maps or whatever, and building on from there. Would be best for new modmakers.

IvaQuaL · 08-21-2007, 08:59 PM

I remember an Empires dev saying that they regretted releasing the mod so early and so buggy (remember the latency too ?) because a lot of people wouldn't play the mod after the first release.

Coronius · 08-21-2007, 09:29 PM

Buggy isnt "implemented good", so yeah. Proves their point abit furter.

Dospac · 08-22-2007, 05:12 AM

WoW and other MMOs have killed mods more than the release method. There's a lotta hours going into MMOs that would otherwise be spent by casual gamers looking for kicks and trying new things.

gizmofo · 08-22-2007, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dospac

WoW and other MMOs have killed mods more than the release method. There's a lotta hours going into MMOs that would otherwise be spent by casual gamers looking for kicks and trying new things.

imo WoW is seeming to lose its "WOW!" appeal. People have been playing it for too long and there is only so much you can do. With this new expansion, I think some people will be abandoning the game, as happened with guild wars. I think if someone releases a good, new idea around that time, people will jump on that. After WoW, I can't think of a better MMO, so may the gamers return to the FPS.

Dospac · 08-22-2007, 07:23 AM

Yeah, it'll go back and forth between different things as usual I think.

Jimyd · 08-22-2007, 07:53 PM

Just don't pull a Dystopia.

If you played in the begining you know what I mean.

**squeek.** · 08-22-2007, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gizmofo

imo WoW is seeming to lose its "WOW!" appeal. People have been playing it for too long and there is only so much you can do. With this new expansion, I think some people will be abandoning the game, as happened with guild wars. I think if someone releases a good, new idea around that time, people will jump on that. After WoW, I can't think of a better MMO, so may the gamers return to the FPS.

It seems all the WoW players I know are excited about Warhammer. I don't think MMO's will lose their steam for some time.

Foxtrick · 08-22-2007, 10:26 PM

I hope what I'm posting isnt a tangent but how the interviewees claim that the general communities of games are not smaller is wrong.

Main stream games of Quake, Half Life etc at the time had no competition, there was certainly no where near the diversity. Certainly theres more people on the net these days, but people have grand choice and command over what they do, more so than ever. Aswell as alot less people just bumbaling through the door into a online game, people certainly know what they want and what they are doing. And FPS genres was a sort of default to fall into.. instead of kids and teenagers dumbing down into pure action and spontanious tactics and initiative, people are going for strategies and roleplay. Ofcourse which then goes into game design being more advanced as are technologies and now people can be alot more creative and give more.

In turn, its obvious that Half-Life 2 has alot smaller membership from HL1 days. Otherwise its a figure that Valve would have been proud to show off. Its something thats always bugged me when being excited about Fortress Forever. Will there be as many leagues.. at one time I think in western europe alone there was like about 7 leagues split across 30+ odd divisions if not more.

Elkz · 08-27-2007, 01:14 AM

Quote:

If I was planning on spending years of my life working on something without getting paid I would want to get people playing it as soon as possible so I could see what was working and what wasn't. I wouldn't want to spend 4 years on something, release it, 1000 people play for a month or two and then everyone forgets it when the next big thing comes along.

That puts things into perspective I hope.

Jiggles · 08-27-2007, 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Back1234

I wouldn't want to spend 4 years on something, release it, 1000 people play for a month or two and then everyone forgets it when the next big thing comes along.

True, it's a good idea to get your fresh idea out so you can see if it actually has potential and excites people. FF, however, is not a "fresh idea" -- it has fresh ideas in it, but FF is still based on TF.

Anthraxium[WU] · 08-27-2007, 08:51 AM

and TF will live forever.

Ihmhi · 08-27-2007, 09:16 AM

I say we get some paintball guns and cardboard forts and play some REAL Team Fortress.

Dibs on the Sentry Gun made out of a baseball chucker. (btw, completely unrelated note, but helmets are mandatory...)

Marshmallow Noob · 08-27-2007, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ihmhi

I say we get some paintball guns and cardboard forts and play some REAL Team Fortress.

Dibs on the Sentry Gun made out of a baseball chucker. (btw, completely unrelated note, but helmets are mandatory...)

Id be hw then.

skuLL · 08-28-2007, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthraxium[WU]

and TF will live forever.

I bet it dies before tetris.

08-27-2007, 09:16 AM	#18
Ihmhi [AE] 0112 Ihmhi SJB Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Newark, NJ, United States Class/Position: A little bit o' everythin' Gametype: Also a little bit o' everythin' Affiliations: [AE] Asseater, SJB Straight Jacket Brigade Posts Rated Helpful 3 Times	I say we get some paintball guns and cardboard forts and play some REAL Team Fortress. Dibs on the Sentry Gun made out of a baseball chucker. (btw, completely unrelated note, but helmets are mandatory...) __________________ Support FF: Anime: The Thread: Reloaded The one and only anime thread on these here forums. Select the pistol, and then, select your horse.

08-21-2007, 04:18 PM	#2
mistermojo the pumps dont work Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	that is mixed advice, though. Back in the early days, yeah, there weren't that many games to play or new genres, so releasing something like Counter Strike or Team Fortress or Urban Terror would get people playing them now, though, any mod you release that's not running and playing great is just going to lose members right away and people won't want to try it again after their first bad experience

08-21-2007, 04:26 PM	#3
Tennovan The one and only Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I'm definitely not saying I agree with them -- I think both sides have very valid points as to why they should/shouldn't work better. They also mention that mod developers have set the bar so much higher than before, I guess in an attempt to rival commercial games. IMO, I think mod *community* has set the bar higher and the developers are just trying to keep up. I imagine this is one of the biggest reasons the mod scene is struggling so much.

08-21-2007, 04:27 PM	#4
GhOsT Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	It's more than just that. When TF and CS were released they were fresh, new ideas. They didn't have a past history to live up to. If you have an original mod that people will find fun to play then release early/release often may work. Gary's mod is a modern example of this.

08-21-2007, 05:27 PM	#5
Etzell D&A Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Also, source mods take a billion years longer than HL1 mods did.

08-21-2007, 08:59 PM	#7
IvaQuaL Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I remember an Empires dev saying that they regretted releasing the mod so early and so buggy (remember the latency too ?) because a lot of people wouldn't play the mod after the first release.

08-21-2007, 09:29 PM	#8
Coronius Alcoholic Artist Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Sweden Posts Rated Helpful 2 Times	Buggy isnt "implemented good", so yeah. Proves their point abit furter.

08-22-2007, 05:12 AM	#9
Dospac Retired FF Staff Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	WoW and other MMOs have killed mods more than the release method. There's a lotta hours going into MMOs that would otherwise be spent by casual gamers looking for kicks and trying new things.

08-22-2007, 07:23 AM	#11
Dospac Retired FF Staff Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Yeah, it'll go back and forth between different things as usual I think.

08-22-2007, 07:53 PM	#12
Jimyd []< ,,\/_ ^_~ _\/,, >[] Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Just don't pull a Dystopia. If you played in the begining you know what I mean.

08-22-2007, 10:26 PM	#14
Foxtrick Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I hope what I'm posting isnt a tangent but how the interviewees claim that the general communities of games are not smaller is wrong. Main stream games of Quake, Half Life etc at the time had no competition, there was certainly no where near the diversity. Certainly theres more people on the net these days, but people have grand choice and command over what they do, more so than ever. Aswell as alot less people just bumbaling through the door into a online game, people certainly know what they want and what they are doing. And FPS genres was a sort of default to fall into.. instead of kids and teenagers dumbing down into pure action and spontanious tactics and initiative, people are going for strategies and roleplay. Ofcourse which then goes into game design being more advanced as are technologies and now people can be alot more creative and give more. In turn, its obvious that Half-Life 2 has alot smaller membership from HL1 days. Otherwise its a figure that Valve would have been proud to show off. Its something thats always bugged me when being excited about Fortress Forever. Will there be as many leagues.. at one time I think in western europe alone there was like about 7 leagues split across 30+ odd divisions if not more.

08-27-2007, 08:51 AM	#17
Anthraxium[WU] D&A Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: San Diego Class/Position: D Soldier Affiliations: Notorious WU Tang Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	and TF will live forever.

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