Cooperative map projects

[o_imbrifer]

So I have done a cooperative map project - I did a remake of cs_siege and a friend of mine made the bridge and helped me test it. I'm considering doing a cooperative mapping project for FF (I have some ideas for a hunted-ish map) but I wanted to see what other members of the community had to say about cooperative mapping projects.

Do they generally work?

What specific experiences have you had?

What are the pros and cons of working with one or two others on a map?

[o_fisheye]

. generally, no
. worked on several that went nowhere
. - pros, you have someone else to blame when it goes tits up
- cons, it'll usually go tits up.

[o_jerm]

ask the trepids

[trepid_jesse]

Workin' on maps with other people can be kinda tricky. Probably the biggest problem you might encounter is finding someone that is pretty much on the same level of ability as yourself. If you're adept at makin' stuff and you team up with someone else that's not quite up to your level, you're gonna wanna rip your face off with tryin' to work with that guy. On the other hand, you probably won't have much luck teaming up with someone who's just far and above your superior, and he might be the standard you're wanting to work with even though you might not be on that standard yourself.

Say you find a person, though, and you're both equals as far as ability. Well, then you could potentially run into problems with everything else. Maybe you have an idea about something should work, and the other guy has a completely different idea and you spend time aruging about it. Even Jon and I still do this, but I would say our arguments are more productive being that we still keep in mind what the goal we're aimin' for is. I really dunno how to explain that last sentence, but yeah.. there's things you gotta deal with along the way.

Not to mention that the person you find you're hopin' doesn't flake out on you.

haha, ok, so, I make it sound like it's impossible to do, but it's not. You just gotta know what you're lookin' for, and hope to accomplish, with the person(s) you work with.

[o_kam]

So who's better, you or jon?

[o_imbrifer]

Thanks for the replies, everyone. I noticed that the guy I worked with was really good at making detailed and curved brushwork, which got me thinking... Are there parts of maps which different mappers could specialize in? The basic one I thought of was inside vs. outside design and creation.. But something in my mind said its not that easy to divide up. How else could maps be divided up? Or is specialization impractical?

Jesse/Jon: when you divide work up, is it specialization or more general mapping twice-as-fast (hypothetically, at least)?

[trepid_jesse]

Oh, it's me kamikaze, definitely. Jon is just there to make sure my beer doesn't get warm.

We don't really "divide up the work," Imbrifier. It's more like one of us thinks of something, makes a rough version of it, and then we both work together to refine it.

Like, right now, Jon has a better idea of what he think the 3D sky could look like around hunted. We're really gonna try and not just cave-in and make some stupid ass random buildings and hills and all that out there, and actually try and develop a setting where you'll run up on the hill that's opposite building one and think, "Man, there's a beached whale over there, and I think... wait, is he.. ohhh man he ain't got no panties on." Well, haha, you get the idea, right? Haha, I don't even know if I do after reading that sentence; the point is that we've been spending a lot of time, probably too much time, trying to develop a setting instead of just arbitrary stuff.

In some cases the work is greatly sped up, but in other places we end up sending a lot more time developing areas to get them lookin' really good. We're hopin' that by the time we're done with hunted, and you're playin' it, that all of this stuff that we spend all this time thinkin' about will be evident. We really plan on keeping the modelers and texture artists busy with custom content for hunted.

What are Foantaire-Fey's motives, man? No one knows, but you will once you get that dollar dollar bill y'all.

[o_jerm]

if someone else is awesome at displacements and you cant even make a realistic looking feild then by all means you should use them to do that, rather than having a shit map

Also jesse are you and jon close together (IE LOCATION WISE NOT HOMOSEXUALS)

[o_sh4x]

Is there such thing has "someone who likes displacements better" ?

My map is coming along nicely but I havent started working on displacements yet. I was considering trying to find someone to help me out (not that I wouldnt be able to make it, just that it would speed up things alot). The guy could concentrate on the yard and I could keep making the inside a beautiful place.

Anyways, after thinking a little more, I came to the conclusion that it would be too hard to find someone interested that would also satisfy me workwise. I spent so much time already on that map that it would probably hurt my feelings to see someone else shape up my baby the way he intends it.

BUT. If "the marvelous displacement maker" passes by I might reconsider all this. I'd like to see the final result one day and the fact that I'm pretty perfectionnist doesn't speed up things.

[o_sigma]

I've been playing around with the editor and sort of been working on a map (although that editor likes to make things misalign if you group anything).

I was planning a 4fort map, but unless someone is intrested in helping me, I may just scrap the 5% I've done. When I started out I started making blocks and connecting all corners with arches so it is nice and smooth. Now I'm getting rather tired of the placement system. I learned how to make elevators and some other things, so its still a learning experience. I've not yet figured out how to make things shiney, but that is very low priority.

I can't grip enough about little things that bother me. For example, the snap to grid even when off still snaps to 1x1 grid which is bad if you make an arch or something at a tiny size because it gets horribly distorted. Anyways should anyone be interested in viewing what've so far in this miserable puesdo 4fort just pm me and I'll send you what I have.

[trepid_jesse]

You're right, if you disable "Snap to Grid" it simply allows movement on the 1 unit grid; however, I have never known of any case for any mapper where they needed to do disable "Snap to Grid." Being that disabling it just decrements movement to the 1 unit grid, then you should just manually lower the grid and zoom in if you think you've hit a spot where you need to un-snap from the grid.

Considering that, though, you mention that "[...]which is bad if you make an arch or something at a tiny size because it gets horribly distorted."

There's a couple of things wrong with that.

First of all, if you're needing to do some work with the arch that requires precision that's less than 1 unit, you're doing something wrong. There are sometimes very rare situations, at least for me, where I would need to do something that needs greater precision that Hammer provides, but there's usually a workaround/better way to achieve what I was going for.

Secondly, if you're making archs at an incredibly small size to begin with, then you don't need to be using the arch tool. You need to either re-evaluate what exactly it is you're trying to do, and then probably create the architecture manually.

Anyway, salt and vinegar chips are fuckin' delicious.

[o_fisheye]

holding Alt while moving an object stops it from snapping to the 1x1 grid. handy for positioning models that need fine adjustments, but something i'd never want to do to a vertex.

[o_stino]

i've once tried that, but its much easier when you do everything yourselve. (with the help of tutorials if needed :d)

[o_nezumi]

I've collaborated on a map with a friend of mine. I think it worked out really well. The map got done in record time, and had a very interesting style to it. I think I can recongnize both of our styles, and this map sorta looked like both. It was neat. Working with someone can be very efficient too. Like, if we had a question about how to do something, I would go look it up online while he did something else, or one of us would build a skymap and update it while the other did more geometry. Also, two sets of eyes looking out for errors (like bad texture alignment, incorrect lighting on a model, etc.) really helps. I wouldn't think that this sort of thing would be possible if both people weren't in the same room, though.

Additional: This will now be my mantra:

Originally Posted by trepid_jesse

Anyway, salt and vinegar chips are fuckin' delicious.

[o_dyingtolive]

shipwrecked for TFC is an FM community map