02-17-2010, 03:51 PM | #41 | ||||
BADASS
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Brazil
Class/Position: D Solly, O Med Gametype: kill.conc.cap Affiliations: [TALOS] Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
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and remember demos should throw pipes at the incoming offense players who get through front-line. so it's not just about pipeing the flag. Quote:
And ofc the more skilled team has more power! But try to imagine a EVEN match with both teams equally skilled... O would be proportionally faster anyway! Quote:
You know exactly how much time will take for you to get to the defensive player position and pretty much where he will be standing. This is enough to know when prime you grenade and throw it as soon as you get there. As a defensive player(doesn't matter solly or HW) [against a decent offense] if you prime grenades without seeing the enemy you have a big chance of throwing them out of nowhere because you cannot predict 100% sure when the medics gonna go to your way. But as above, the opposite is true. ------- the game is faster, ok good, i like that. but it is unbalanced... proportionally speaking the game is faster for offense not defense: well, the speed of all game has been increased, but besides that offense have some advantages: - jump pads; - respawn closer to base exit for offense; and defense some disadvantages - respawn far from defending position; - reloading time which does not correspond with the amount/speed of 'offense players per minute ratio'; -------- I'd love to see more people posting on here... More opinion from the devs would be important for a proper discussion. Last edited by immortal; 02-18-2010 at 01:11 PM. |
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02-17-2010, 08:46 PM | #42 |
Join Date: May 2009
Class/Position: [O]Spy [D]Soldier Gametype: CTF \ DM Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
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Soldier needs NO buff. It is the best class in the game. If anything it's refire rate needs a nerf.
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02-18-2010, 09:45 AM | #43 |
D&A Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ruining #pickups
Class/Position: SPAWN CAMPING OH NO Gametype: Ragequitting Affiliations: [PMS]. [Shiney] Posts Rated Helpful 26 Times
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02-18-2010, 11:06 AM | #44 |
D&A Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Gametype: AvD, I/D, waterpolo, hunted Posts Rated Helpful 6 Times
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eomoyaff: Seeing as how I had a chance to play you recently in a CTF pub and me, as a lone soldier, apparently was overwhelming your team (prior to me joining it was nothing but scouts on O) to the point where everyone on D was complaining about how difficult the game had become, I'm afraid I have to call bullshit on your claims. The teams were even, all I was doing was playing an O solly as competently as I could; trying to break up D and provide support for the scouts. I recorded a demo too if anyone wants to see what happened. If D was truly balanced, my tactics would not have been a problem.
It is not balanced however, so unless you consider "skill" complaining for the enemy to switch to a lighter class, I think you're in denial of the problem, having witnessed your actions firsthand. I do realize pickups are a completely different animal from pubs however. Again, I can't comment on the balance for that. At this point I doubt I'll change your mind on anything, just remember that a lot of the game exists outside of pickups and what amounts to balance there does not necessarily carry over to the rest of the game. |
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02-18-2010, 01:01 PM | #45 |
Exceedingly Correct.
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: London, England.
Class/Position: Variable Gametype: QuakeLive CTF Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times
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The problem, as I've already outlined, is with Grenades. How fast they can be replenished and used in attack compared to how fast they can be replenished and used in defence.
That's putting aside the fact that the usage of Grenades is already heavily biased to the aggressor. I already explained this well enough in my previous post though. |
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02-18-2010, 05:02 PM | #46 |
D&A Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ruining #pickups
Class/Position: SPAWN CAMPING OH NO Gametype: Ragequitting Affiliations: [PMS]. [Shiney] Posts Rated Helpful 26 Times
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Most maps have an average of at least 7 caps per round, when the teams are balanced. Some go up to 10. Only some - like reloaded - often see 3 per side.
Increase the sshotty/shotty damages. Not much, just about ten to twenty percent. And for fuck's sake, fix jump pads or make concs detrimental to the offense. At least one of those. |
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02-18-2010, 06:15 PM | #47 |
The guy you love to hate.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Under your bed
Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times
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In Dustbowl, I notice that Offense always rapes the Defense in FF.
Possibly because it's too easy to take out the SG's in FF? Possibly because FF does not have Teleport (which I like)? In TFC and TF2's Dustbowl it's not that easy for Offense. |
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02-18-2010, 06:44 PM | #48 |
D&A Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Gametype: AvD, I/D, waterpolo, hunted Posts Rated Helpful 6 Times
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xks: I've never thought about grenades substantially in terms of affecting the balance (I'm not denying it though), however consider how slanted things are in some AvD maps where neither side has access to grenades, I think it's significantly more than JUST that.
s0undch4s3r: I think sg's are a huge part of why defense is weaker. As for teleport, I played TFC a LOT before they ever added it to the game. For dustbowl especially that would help offense much more than defense. While both sides have to run to the front line, it's in D's interest to run past the cap to constantly survey the area for anyone who may have slipped by. |
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02-18-2010, 11:56 PM | #49 | |
Exceedingly Correct.
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: London, England.
Class/Position: Variable Gametype: QuakeLive CTF Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times
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Attackers can do all of it faster than defenders can in most cases and for the attacking players, it's nothing out of the ordinary, they just continue to do what they do. Attack, die, full health/armour, fresh set of grens and on they go. Defenders are limited by whatever is available on the map, it's not the same for the offence. I highlighted grenades because they are the biggest game changing item in FF but they also come under restocking I agree. AvD maps don't suffer in the same way because it's almost in everyones interest to die in order to restock as the games are so spammy with limited restocking resources. Of course dying still gives a bigger disadvantage to the defenders, but they are at a disadvantage anyway with the nature of AvD gameplay. There is certainly more to consider than Grenades (or restocking) and speed, but they are the two key factors in the offensive bias of the game. Speed makes Grenades and restocking a problem, when the advantage should be a lot less (although still an advantage) for the sake of balance and a fun game. |
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02-19-2010, 12:34 PM | #50 |
Fortress Forever Staff
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts Rated Helpful 45 Times
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Attacking in AvD is too easy in FF. I don't think anyone can argue that. 1 guy jumping over everyone onto the cap point isn't the best mechanic in the world. Having 1 experienced jumper on the offense team breaks the game for everyone else, the rest of his team is largely irrelevant.
That said, i believe the damage slowdown helps, stopping a soldier rocket+grenjump over the entire defense if you shoot him while he's in the air. Yes HWs are weaker than TFC, leagues had to ban use of more than 1 HW because it was overpowered. That said the HW in FF is more of an air-stopping machine rather than a pure damage dealer now the damage slowdown is working. Last edited by AfterShock; 02-19-2010 at 12:35 PM. |
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02-19-2010, 02:35 PM | #51 | ||
The Crowbar Commander
Beta Tester
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Statesville, NC
Class/Position: Anything. Gametype: CTF/CP (AvD needs fixing) Posts Rated Helpful 28 Times
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@Chille
Alright, it's pretty much obvious that EVERY PUB GAME is going to be unbalanced.. Testing this discussion in a pub game is highly inaccurate and the data received is useless. The only way you're really going to tell what classes are higher powered then others is to test there full functional abilities in a zone without interruption before the point of reaching that zone. Also playing an Offensive Soldier is frowned upon and causes a major struggle for the defense. Mostly, Soldier is considered a defensive class unless it's with AvD maps. I believe the class alone is overpowered but needs to be for competitive reasons. But for AvD they do most of the capping in every map based off what I've seen and what I've done. ----- @ immo Quote:
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As for everything else, I don't need to explain. Last edited by eomoyaff; 02-19-2010 at 02:36 PM. |
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02-19-2010, 04:28 PM | #52 |
D&A Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ruining #pickups
Class/Position: SPAWN CAMPING OH NO Gametype: Ragequitting Affiliations: [PMS]. [Shiney] Posts Rated Helpful 26 Times
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02-19-2010, 05:38 PM | #53 | ||||
D&A Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Gametype: AvD, I/D, waterpolo, hunted Posts Rated Helpful 6 Times
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Last edited by chilledsanity; 02-22-2010 at 12:02 AM. |
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02-19-2010, 05:57 PM | #54 | |
BADASS
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Brazil
Class/Position: D Solly, O Med Gametype: kill.conc.cap Affiliations: [TALOS] Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
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what's up to cake, spoon and killu? who said you just deal with only 1 enemy at time? I don't think you ever played a front-line position against a decent offense before. Otherwise you would know that dealing with more than 1 enemy at time is common. As also is running out of ammo on your weapons and not having enough time to reload them between offense rushes. Last edited by immortal; 02-19-2010 at 06:13 PM. |
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02-19-2010, 09:26 PM | #55 |
D&A Member
Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts Rated Helpful 31 Times
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We've been testing a lot of grenades and other tools for D classes that allow them to stop or slow the offense, rather than relying on spamming explosives.
The problem(s) with IvD maps is: -wide open spaces, along with jumppads and gren jumping -engies can't get metal fast enough to build -Heavy classes andn snipers can run O because the spawns are closer -D has no time to reset after a cap |
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02-20-2010, 07:42 AM | #56 | |
The Crowbar Commander
Beta Tester
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Statesville, NC
Class/Position: Anything. Gametype: CTF/CP (AvD needs fixing) Posts Rated Helpful 28 Times
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As for what Carl Said. The bags could use a little more in them to make the sg's go up faster. and it does take a bit for the d to reset. Normally what I'm use to doing is if the flag is at front entrance, I ask for 2 to stay back for the relay. usually it's an engi and an hw. To get an early build on an Sg while the hw protects the engi's objective. Pretty good shit though. |
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02-20-2010, 09:04 AM | #57 |
D&A Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ruining #pickups
Class/Position: SPAWN CAMPING OH NO Gametype: Ragequitting Affiliations: [PMS]. [Shiney] Posts Rated Helpful 26 Times
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You can run right up to an SG as a medic. There's no SG push. That's the main problem with SGs.
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02-20-2010, 02:37 PM | #58 |
D&A Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Gametype: AvD, I/D, waterpolo, hunted Posts Rated Helpful 6 Times
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Ah careful, you'll get people flaming you as to how much it's improved! Remember, it's been changed from light-sneeze-weak to now the much improved limp-wristed-slap-weak! I'm sure changes are being worked on for the next version of FF to achieve that perfect balance of wet-paper-bag-weak.
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02-21-2010, 08:45 PM | #59 | |
BADASS
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Brazil
Class/Position: D Solly, O Med Gametype: kill.conc.cap Affiliations: [TALOS] Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
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btw i think you are just in denial.. I'm saying what commonly DOES happen in matches, not just with me. if you grab some demos or spec a few matches you gonna get it. All you have done so far is talking about you, what you can do, the way you play, and how it's fine for you. Which i can't really understand because you can't deal one laggy Medic when playing Soldier. Sorry to say that this way, but it's the truth. |
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03-07-2010, 12:53 AM | #60 | |
The Original Puff Daddy
Join Date: Feb 2010
Gametype: Capture the Flag Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
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Quote:
The guns need more push and should be a bit harder for Scouts & Medics to run up to. The guns need better tracking and to do more damage when players conc in and out. Maps need to change based on 2.41. Maps without grenade packs really stink for Engi's now. I have a suicide bind to get more grenades. It's faster than runing to some spawns or waiting to get killed to get more grenades. Last edited by Puff Boy; 03-07-2010 at 01:04 AM. |
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