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View Poll Results: Should the League Restructure into 3 Divisions?
Yes (I want 3 Divisions: Platinum, Gold, and Silver) 20 66.67%
No (I like the 2 Division setup we have now) 10 33.33%
Voters: 30. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-13-2015, 07:21 AM   #1
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Fortress Forever League - Suggestions & Criticisms

Hi friends,

So, this thread is all about improving the current FF League. I'm going to start it off by making a list of suggestions I've received. I'd really appreciate any and all feedback about the league. I am open to any ideas you may have. I'm not saying anything you suggest will happen, but I will listen to you.

Also, it will really help if you explain why you think your suggestion would be good to implement. I'm open to being convinced in most cases.

As you can see, there is a poll attached to this thread. The poll is about a big issue that will be explained in the first two items in the list: restructuring the league so it has three divisions instead of just two.

--The List--

+Expanding the league to three divisions: http://imgur.com/8BSfUSJ. This could be implemented to stablize the divisions and help games be more competitive by reducing the amount of 'blowouts'.

+If the league was expanded, and the amount of teams in each division reduced, should the # of wins to reach a title match be reduced as well?

+What maps you would like added or removed to the map pool.

+How would you like the title matches to work? Challenger picks the map? Multiple maps played?

+Specific rules you would like verified, removed, added, etc..

+Expanded roster slots. A limit to the amount of team members changed during the week.

+How matches are scheduled between teams. Do they need to go through an admin to make sure everything is verified?

+Do you think you would be a good admin? Would you like to be an admin? Do you think I'm shit, and I should be removed as 'the commish'?

--The List--

Alright, so that's a few of the points I remember being brought up to me. Feel free to mention some that I didn't list here. I'd really like everyone's feedback on how they think the league is going so far, and what they would like changed so it could become a more enjoyable experience for everyone.

I really appreciate everyone's participation, feedback, and just fucking playing the game. This is a community league and I want everyone to have the opportunity to help shape it into something fun.

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Old 07-13-2015, 05:31 PM   #2
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Old 07-13-2015, 06:14 PM   #3
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Based entirely on the current skill levels 3 divisions would make sense. I just wish there were 4 or so more clans, I don't know that the upper divisions playing the same 3 clans over and over is any more sustainable than matches between the opposite ends of a division resulting in blowouts.
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Old 07-13-2015, 06:34 PM   #4
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I think 3 divisions is needed given the obvious skill gap between teams in each division. Wizards, 2g, Saints, and BIG are all "in-between" teams. They will probably run train on silver, but have/would struggle against the plat teams.

While having more teams would make things interesting, you don't have to make existing teams play each other ad nauseam. The MLB has inter-league games, you could have a rotating schedule of 1 week a month all matches are out of conference to break up the monotony. The out of conference record doesn't help or hurt your title shot, just more about bragging rights.

I think we're all interested in seeing more competitive games. Having teams getting rekt week in and out just isn't fun. I've been pretty impressed by the number of games that are being played and the obvious desire to keep this going.

This is contingent on DET returning, it looks like they have a full roster...but I would split the league up like this:

Plat- 4
Gold- 5
Silver- 5

Last edited by Ruta; 07-13-2015 at 06:45 PM.
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Old 07-13-2015, 09:01 PM   #5
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I would be in favor of either expanding the rosters and/or having a league night where everybody plays on a fixed day, perhaps a Monday ala old STA in tfc. The purpose of these two suggestions is to combat the ringer problem. Either teams do not have enough roster slots for four members of their own teams to show up or there is confusion and inconsistency with the scheduling of the matches.

As of today, in 34 matches played since Week 1, there have been 10 matches where ringers have been used. This does not count the matches in which parsed logs are unavailable, so the number could be even higher. Maybe this can be rectified with a 7th roster slot or mandatory match times. I do understand the drawback in a 7th roster slot- there would be fewer teams in the league if more teams were allowed an extra roster slot. But, the list of free agents on the spreadsheet has not substantially changed at all for weeks, and a home can be found for them if teams are willing to take them.

Last edited by BOOMstick; 07-13-2015 at 09:02 PM.
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Old 07-13-2015, 09:40 PM   #6
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Maybe make it a requirement to have at least 5 or 6 players on your team even though the extra players would still be subs. That way from the start there's at least 1 extra player per team available to prevent ringers from being necessary.
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Old 07-14-2015, 03:03 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruta View Post
While having more teams would make things interesting, you don't have to make existing teams play each other ad nauseam. The MLB has inter-league games, you could have a rotating schedule of 1 week a month all matches are out of conference to break up the monotony. The out of conference record doesn't help or hurt your title shot, just more about bragging rights.
If I'm reading this right, an example would be like every 3rd week teams in the Gold division would either play a Plat team or a Silver team. Whether it is 4 or 5 teams in the middle division, they can be broken up where half plays plat and the other half plays a silver team. Then the next time, it would be a team from the other division that they play.

This way you don't have the lowest tier teams playing the highest tier.

Just an idea

Last edited by Peppas; 07-14-2015 at 03:05 AM.
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Old 07-14-2015, 03:17 AM   #8
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And you can keep a separate record for W\Ls for inter-division play. Have your regular division Wins and Loss columns, and the Inter-division Wins and Losses can be used as a judgement tool if a team should be promoted or demoted to a different division.
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Old 07-14-2015, 04:53 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peppas View Post
If I'm reading this right, an example would be like every 3rd week teams in the Gold division would either play a Plat team or a Silver team. Whether it is 4 or 5 teams in the middle division, they can be broken up where half plays plat and the other half plays a silver team. Then the next time, it would be a team from the other division that they play.

This way you don't have the lowest tier teams playing the highest tier.

Just an idea
That is correct. I also think you should have relegation/promotion matches. If Team A from Gold is last and Team B in Silver has held title OR team A has lost 3 in a row, the relegation/promotion match should occur. The only way to get promoted is to beat the team ahead of you. I think this puts more emphasis on games outside of title matches. It also gives an opportunity for one particular division not to get overloaded. When Clermont got promoted, no one was relegated to fill their spot in Silver. Not that I disagree with that decision, I think a team like 2g and Wizards would run train on silver if they were relegated which is why we're here talking about this!

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Old 07-17-2015, 05:33 AM   #10
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Hi everyone,

Thanks for responding and making suggestions.

-----
First I'm going to mention some suggestions sent to me, and hopefully you guys can provide some feedback about them.

+ Putting players from the 'Fatties Who Can't Fit on Teams' list onto teams and having them go through a trial period. This could help teams expand their rosters and make it easier to get matches without ringers going.

+ A rule about players aliasing. It's been suggested that having players alias gives their team a mental advantage over the other team. Personally, I don't really think players need to be forced to have certain names. I don't mind if players alias. The only thing is that when players alias, if NeoNL is casting the match, it makes it a lot harder for him to cast. So, it would be beneficial all around, and rather easy if players just used their regular names. But, unless a vast majority of people want it, I am not going to enforce such a rule.

+ Spectators in the server. It's been suggested that spectators can cause the players to get nervous and perform poorly. Again, I don't think this needs to be enforced. If your team would prefer to not have spectators, you should consider locking the server you are on. Spectators are allowed if they know the password. The players of the match are not required to give the server password to anyone, except for admins. Only admins have the right to the password. The teams can ask others to leave, but they are not obligated to do so. All players on both teams need to know the password, and it should not be kept from another team. Further questions about this can be brought to me.

+ Sportsmanship. This has been fast becoming an issue. Basically, it'd be nice if during a league match, if everyone showed a little respect to one another. I'm not saying you can't talk shit. You absolutely can, but I'd appreciate it if you kept it to team chat. Also, spectator chat needs to be turned off to avoid this issue.
Another aspect of sportsmanship is end of round teamkilling. If your team has secured a victory and still has time remaining, you should not spend that time teamkilling each other. I'm not saying you have to keep capping, but just be respectful to the other team.
Sportsmanship issues need to be brought to me, but I can't do anything about them if you also don't bring me evidence of the violations.

Ok, that's some of what I've been told. I'm going to respond to some of the posts in this thread now.
-----

Quote:
I would be in favor of either expanding the rosters and/or having a league night where everybody plays on a fixed day, perhaps a Monday ala old STA in tfc.
I have added an additional roster spot to the teams. Each team should now have seven spots for players on their team.

I have created a new sheet on the googledoc titled 'Team Availability'. This sheet should be used to help both teams plan for their matches. Hopefully, both of these additions will help reduce the number of ringers, but keep matches being played.

Quote:
Maybe make it a requirement to have at least 5 or 6 players on your team even though the extra players would still be subs.
I don't like forcing teams to have more than four because if I did that right now, 2 Gud would be ineligible to play despite having never missed a match. If a team drops below 4 members I will put them as inactive and will stop scheduling them till they get 4 players.

Quote:
I also think you should have relegation/promotion matches.
Relegation / promotion matches are already in place. Clermont has already gone through this process and is why they are now in Platinum. Current rules say that after 3 wins in a row a team challenges the current #1 team on the division ladder. Whoever wins becomes the division champion. If the division champion wins their next 3 games in a row they have a promotional game where they play the lowest ranked team in the next division up.
I'm more than happy to lower the amount of games it takes, or even modify the current relegation / promotion rules.
And when Clermont was promoted, I didn't relegate anyone because any team in Platinum will dominate, most if not all, the teams in the Silver division.

As for the creation of another division. I am going to wait till next week before I make an official decision. I will only add a division if there is a clear majority. As it stands, 60% Yes and 40% No, there is a clear majority in favor of creating a new division. More details on how it will all be set up will be posted after the decision is made.

Thanks again for the feedback and suggestions and feel free to keep posting them here. I really do appreciate them, and I'm more than happy to make changes if they will make the league better and more fun.
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Old 07-17-2015, 06:23 AM   #11
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If you're in a server where a match is about to take place:

Do not join any team but spec.

Do not talk in MM1.

No other attempts at distracting the people playing the match. For example don't change your name in game. I'm not sure if name changes still put up a notice while spectator chat is set to 0, but just don't do it anyways.

Acting out any of these will result in warnings, then punishments. Seriously, treat each other with some respect. Various amounts of trash talk is fine, but you should not be interfering with other peoples matches.
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Old 07-25-2015, 07:11 AM   #12
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