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Old 02-24-2008, 01:54 PM   #1
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The FF Damage and Speed encyclopedia!

EDIT: This information is out dated and will be updated in the near future. Most values have not changed. Those that have are:

Pyro IC damage
BHop speeds
Any Sentry Gun information that may be in this thread.

I'll update this thread in the next week with info.
_________________________________________________

This thread is going to be used as the FF damage encylopedia. I'll be updating this post, as well as posting more information in the thread as I gather data.

This thread will go over the various damages of all weapons on every target at various ranges, how many consecutive shots it takes to kill someone at a various ranges with various weapons, various running/BHop speeds (both flat ground and otherwise) on various maps, average time it can take to reach certain spots on maps with various classes, etc.

The purpose of this thread is to be used as a reference tool for... whatever. This information will probably also be on the Wiki as well.

This thread is not the place for drama. Leave it out. This thread, instead, will be used as a place for everyone to compile any data they have gathered. Any tests done MUST be done three times and the average of the three tests will be the number that will be used.

The formatting of the information I have gathered may change over time.

Contents of this page so far:
  1. Base run speeds of all classes using hud_speedometer 1.
  2. BHop speeds of all classes using hud_speedometer 1.
  3. How damage is dealt by Circuitious.
  4. Damage done to yourself using primary grenades.
  5. Damage done to yourself using secondary grenades.
  6. Damage done to yourself using weaponry.
  7. Early Possible Height Cap

Base Run Speeds!

To get the speedometer, go into your console and type hud_speedometer 1.

All data gathered here was done on ff_dm in the yard. All speeds recorded were from 10 seconds of running without jumping. Only slight turns allow to avoid bumping into walls. The speed boost gained from these turns were not recorded.


Code:
Scout: 399 until turned, which is stayed at 400.
Sniper: 299 until turned, which stayed at 300.
Soldier: 239-240 until turned, which stayed at 240.
Demo: 279-280 until turned, which stayed at 280.
Medic: 320 (did not change when turned).
Heavy: 229-230 until turned, which stayed at 230.
Heavy firing: 44-45 (did not change when turned).
Pyro:299-300 until turned, which stayed at 300.
Spy Uncloaked: 300 (did not change when turned).
Spy Cloaked: 112 (did not change when turned).
Engineer: 299-300 until turned, which stayed at 300.
Civilian: 229-300 until turned, which stayed at 230.
I don't know why some of the classes bounced from the different numbers, however, 1 speed on the speedometer is incredibly slow... probably not even noticable.

To recreate what I experienced, go to ff_dm, type hud_speedometer 1 in your console and then simply run in a straight line without turning. Once you turn, you will maintain the top number of the speed (unless you're an HW firing). I'm sure this is simply a glitch in the speedometer.

BHop speeds!

To get the speedometer, go into your console and type hud_speedometer 1.

All data gathered here was done on ff_dm in the yard. All speeds recorded were taken from an average of circle BHopping (3 times) and then jumping around the level randomly while BHopping (3 times). Both were for 20 seconds each. The reason for the range given is because I recorded the lowest and highest of each run once max speed was gained.

In order to recreate this data, simply BHop in ff_dm with the speedometer on. You'll see that the number jumps when you turn in the air and falls when you land on the ground regardless of if you jump queue or not.

Code:
Scout: 480-500-530
Sniper: 380-400-420
Soldier: 320-340-350
Demo: 360-380-395
Medic: 410-420 (unsure why this one had such a small range)
Heavy: 310-325-330
Pyro: 380-400-420
Spy: 380-400-420
Engineer: 380-400-420
Civ: 310-325 (unsure why this one had such a small range
As you can see, most of the classes have the exact same base run speeds and unassisted BHop speeds.

SOME NOTES!

Each hop in your BHop will have varying speeds. I will explain the above numbers more accurately.

The lowest number represents the, literal, bottom of the jump. This is both the beginning and end of the jump... as in the point where your feet touch the ground. This is, roughly, what your speed will drop to every single jump.

The middle number is the 'average' speed of the jump. It represents, roughly, what BHop speed would be like if the base run speed was set to BHop speeds.

The highest number represents the part of your jump RIGHT before you touch the ground. The number steeply rises from lowest to highest as you jump, and this process remains.

FURTHER NOTES!

BHop speeds will vary depending on map. The only time you'll ever truly achieve the average is when you're on a completely flat map and are not being pushed by anything (explosives, concs, jump pads, etc).

For example, the offense on CTF maps is, 95% of the time, affected by concs, jump pads, explosives, midmap terrain, etc. This all plays a major role in your BHop speed.

To get a rough average for your max BHop speed, go to ff_dm and BHop around the level for a bit using hud_speedometer 1. If you aren't getting the range I presented above, you are doing it wrong.

FURTHER NOTES

There is a difference between queue jump BHop and traditional BHop. The difference is that you can maintain, about 530 BHop as the scout with queue jumping and you pit back down to 480 with every jump using traditional BHop (pressing space right as you land).

I think this is also effected by ping. It seems when I BHop on flat places in servers that I have 50 ping, I can maintain a BHop speed of 500 with traditional BHop. In a created server (0 ping), I shoot down to 480 after each jump.

Much more testing with BHopping than I expected.

The entire BHop section will be changing drastically.

How damage is dealt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Circuitous
The classes with heavy armor (Soldier, HWGuy) take 20% to health, 80% to armor.

Medium armor (Engineer, Medic, Pyro, Demo) take 40% to health, 60% to armor.

Light armor (Scout, Sniper, Spy) is 70% health, 30% armor.

In other words, damages are the same (Frags do 95), but on heavier classes more of that goes to armor.

With this in mind, if you try weapons on classes with no armor, you'll get their exact damages. From there you can do the math, and 99% of the time it'll be correct.
Self Damage: Primary Grenade!

These tests were hard to do. I will explain the process I went through while doing this.

1. I picked a class.

2. I went to the center of ff_dm.

3. I threw my primary grenade into the very center of mulch mans face.

4. I then stood at various ranges and recorded the data.

I did this three times. After that, I did another three tests with a corner of the map.

1. I picked a class.

2. I went to a corner of ff_dm.

3. I threw my primary grenade into a corner, making sure it stayed in the corner.

4. I then stood at various ranges and recorded the data.

The data was pretty much identical.

The formatting for this will be different than the above as the information may get hard to read with it being cluttered.

Note: The damage willnot be the same between all classes due to each class having different amounts of armor. I also did not factor any fall damage into the equation, however, add in between 1-10 damage on all classes but the scout and spy.

Code:
LEGEND:
Point Blank: On top of the grenade (not hand held).
Close: 2-5 feet away.
Far: 5-7 feet away.


X/Y

X=Health damage
Y=Armor damage
Code:
Scout: No primary Grenades.
Code:
Sniper
Point Blank: 66/28
Close: 49/20
Far: 30/12
Code:
Soldier
Point Blank: 19/77
Close: 15/60
Far: 12/47
Code:
Demo
Point Blank: 38/57
Close: 31/47
Far: 13/19
Code:
Medic
Point Blank: 38/57
Close: 29/43
Far: 14/21
Code:
Heavy
Point Blank: 19/77
Close: 16/61
Far: 13/19
Code:
Pyro
Point Blank: 38/57
Close: 33/49
Far: 13/20
Code:
Engineer:
Point Blank: 48/44 (this is about what it would be like for the scout if he had a primary grenade)
Close: 36/31 (this is about what it would be like for the scout if he had a primary grenade)
Far: 10/9 (this is about what it would be like for the scout if he had a primary grenade)
You will probably notice that there is a rough trend there. The "type" of class is taken in to account when health and armor is determined. Heavier classes (soldier and heavy) take more armor damage than the other classes. I do not know if this is intended or not, however, this is the case.

You should also note that the close and far damages are roughly the same. The reason for the discrepancy is because it's very hard to get the exact same range each time, and the averaging of each got it as close as it could.

Self Damage Secondary Grenade!

I did the same thing with the secondary grenades as I did with the primary grenades.


Code:
LEGEND:
Point Blank: On top of the grenade (not hand held).
Close: 2-5 feet away.
Far: 5-7 feet away.


X/Y

X=Health
Y=Armor
Code:
Scout-Conc
Point Blank: 0
Close: 0
Far: 0
Code:
Sniper - No Grenade.
Code:
Soldier Nail Grenade

Each Nail does roughly 2/8 damage at full health.

Point Blank: Death. The nails kill you before the explosion goes off.
Close: 41/163 with lots of nails (was unable to count)
Far: 19/78 (with three nails).
Code:
Demo - MIRV First Explosion
Point Blank: 48/71
Close: 33/48
Far: 37/55
Code:
Demo - MIRV One Mirvlet
Point Blank: 41/62
Close: 40/60
Far:37/55
Code:
Demo - MIRV Entire
Point Blank: Death.
Close: Death
Far: Varied greatly... depended on how the mirvs popped out.
Code:
Engineer EMP
Point Blank: 21/20
Close: 21/20
Far: 21/20
Code:
Pyro Napalm - Explosion (The range here did not matter... explosion radius was tiny)
Point Blank: 22/32
Close: 22/32
Far: 22/32
Code:
Pyro Napalm - Fire tick rate
Fire per Tick: 3/4 (full health just once, increases as your armor decreases
Tick rate: 2 seconds
Code:
Pyro Napalm - Explosion+fire
47/66
Code:
Pyro Napalm - Four at once
Death at fourth explosion
Code:
Spy - Gas Grenade
Without standing in it: 11 hp damage (ignores armor)
With standing in it: 20 hp damage (ignores armor)
4 gas grenades while standing in it: 21 damage (ignores armor)*
*Note: No visibility while standing in them.

Code:
HW - MIRV Primary
Point Blank: 24/95
Close: 19/74
Far:13/50
Code:
HW - MIRVletes
Point Blank: 4 of them=68/270
Close: 2 of them=32/125
Far: 1 of them=14/54
*

This entire thing was hard to test due to the HW having absolutely no pushability with explosions.

Code:
HW - Entire MIRV
Point Blank: Death
Close: 95/300
Far: 46/183
Self Damage using your Weaponry!

Some of this was hard to test due to either incredibly small blast radii' or bounciness of the weapon. *'s will represent rough results. I'll also only go over classes that have weaponry that can hurt them.

Code:
Soldier - Rocket
Point Blank: 13/54
Close: 11/42
Far: 6/24
Code:
Demo - Green Pipe
Point Blank: 29/73
Close: 13/33
Far: 9/13
Code:
Demo - Blue
Point Blank: 28/41
Close:13/33
Far: 17/26
*

Code:
Pyro - Incendiary Cannon
Point Blank: 28/41
Close: 18/25
Far: 3/4
* *

* The range of the IC is incredibly small... about a 3 foot explosion radius when damaging yourself.

Code:
Engineer - Railgun (Thanks ICB!)
Point Blank: 13/9
Close: 4/3
Far: 3/2
Overcharge:10/10
Weapon damage!

The following is a work in progress. It contains rough estimates of the highest damage possible. The methods used to calculate all damage done is the same with all weapons done. This section will contain how many shots it takes to kill a person at various ranges as well as the weapon damage done at various ranges. With explosions, this range is a rough estimate and is simply there so everyone can get an idea of why those scouts and medics seem to not die.

The method I used to gather this data is simple. I used the 'yardage' lines on ff_dm for varying lengths. The point of reference was the box and then the lines were used for distance. The numbers are exactly the same as all other damage values in the encyclopedia.

P.B. = Point Blank... no damage difference between a shot that touches the feet or a shot that touches the chest.
Medium = Two lines from middle of the box.
Far = First line past mulch circle.
Super far = Wall to wall.

For explosives, this is different and only two values will be present; P.B. and Medium.

P.B. = Point Blank
Medium = About 3 feet away.

Code:
Damage done by soldier rockets:

Scout:

P.B. 60/25
Medium: 25/20

Sniper:

P.B.: 60/25
Medium: 25/20 (I'm rechecking this)

Soldier:

P.B: 17/68
Medium: 13-51

Demo:

P.B: 34/50
Medium: 12/18

Medic:

P.B: 42/50
Medium: 19/18

Heavy:

P.B: 17/68
Medium: 13/51

Pyro:

P.B: 42/50
Medium: 19/18

Spy:

P.B: 42/50
Medium: 19/18

Engy:

Still needs to be tested.

Civilian

P.B: 60/25
Medium: 25/20
The above is pretty bare bones for now. Expect lots of updates over the next few days in this section.

Early Height Cap Estimates!

These numbers will be changed as more data is gathered from this thread:

http://www.fortress-forever.com/foru...331#post333331

The point of this section is for map creators who aren't sure of whats possible or are creating a skill map. Enjoy.

The first list will be of jumps.

Code:
Conc Jump (dropped): 544
Conc Jump (HH): 704
Rocket Jump: 448
Incendiary Cannon+Flamethrower: 352
1 Green Pipe: 480
2 Green Pipes: 1218
3 Green Pipes: 2368
4 Green Pipes: 3904
Frag: 704
Railgun: 288
EMP: 352
NOTE: The above info are early trends in the thread I've listed. This may change with time.

Thanks to squeek for starting the thread!

More thanks to Ghostbuster, Maximi, Kubedawg, Bakez, and Mace.

__________________________________________________ _

That's all for now. I'll be updating this post with more information as I get it. Please feel free to add any data you have gathered.

Disclaimer: Please carefully read what it is you are going over. The damages for damaging yourself and others are different. Currently all that has been covered is self-damage.
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Last edited by Credge; 11-25-2008 at 09:06 AM.
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Old 02-24-2008, 11:11 PM   #2
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Bhop speeds aren't completely correct. I know for a fact you can reach ~530 as a scout. The "cap" is 480, but you can reach ~530 in the air.

EDIT: But, great work.
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Old 02-24-2008, 11:20 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squeek.
Bhop speeds aren't completely correct. I know for a fact you can reach ~530 as a scout. The "cap" is 480, but you can reach ~530 in the air.

EDIT: But, great work.
What I recorded was an average. The numbers that popped up most frequently were, roughly, 500 and 480, with 480 appearing when you touched the ground and 500 being at the apex of the jump.

So 530 with the highest and 480 as the lowest when BHopping shows about an average of 500 (or 505).
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Old 02-24-2008, 11:58 PM   #4
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So you listed 2 averages? Like a low average and a high average?
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Old 02-25-2008, 12:17 AM   #5
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The classes with heavy armor (Soldier, HWGuy) take 20% to health, 80% to armor.

Medium armor (Engineer, Medic, Pyro, Demo) take 40% to health, 60% to armor.

Light armor (Scout, Sniper, Spy) is 70% health, 30% armor.

In other words, damages are the same (Frags do 95), but on heavier classes more of that goes to armor.

With this in mind, if you try weapons on classes with no armor, you'll get their exact damages. From there you can do the math, and 99% of the time it'll be correct.
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Old 02-25-2008, 01:03 AM   #6
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The bhop one is hard to record meaningfully because everyone has a different technique and so without a hard cap like TFC people can reach different levels. I've not gone through thorough testing on each class but for me it is very possible to build up to and maintain 500-530 speeds as scout, and I'm sure that there are people that can maintain it between 510-535 or higher?

I'm not entirely sure what I'm getting at here, but maybe it's worth noting the definate soft cap for each class (120% max speed) then try to find a couple of other things, one perhaps being a -max- average sustainable bunnyhop speed, which I believe for most classes might be higher than the average bunnyhop readings you have (i.e. once in a settled bunnyhop speed, a collective effort is found to see what speeds CAN be reached). The second, which I think would be rather cool would be to find the maximum "glide" or initial jump speeds that can be reached off your first jump. Thus far my speedometer has showing towards 150% base speed (seeing up to 598 as scout) and I'm fairly sure that people more practiced than I am in FF could pull off some nice speeds.


The rest is all cool because you cannot argue with a grenade or a rocket - it either hurts you or it doesnt!


Maybe I'm thinking a little too much into this or possibly still being lied to by my speedometer (it used to pre-2.0), but I do find it all quite interesting and I like the idea and the effort behind the stuff you've done.
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Old 02-25-2008, 02:58 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Circuitous
The classes with heavy armor (Soldier, HWGuy) take 20% to health, 80% to armor.

Medium armor (Engineer, Medic, Pyro, Demo) take 40% to health, 60% to armor.

Light armor (Scout, Sniper, Spy) is 70% health, 30% armor.

In other words, damages are the same (Frags do 95), but on heavier classes more of that goes to armor.

With this in mind, if you try weapons on classes with no armor, you'll get their exact damages. From there you can do the math, and 99% of the time it'll be correct.
Good to know. What you listed is one reason I'm wanting to go over all the damage possible with all weapons at various ranges so we can understand get some good reference stuffs up.

Adding it in!

Quote:
Originally Posted by KubeDawg
So you listed 2 averages? Like a low average and a high average?
Pretty much. I was able to peak up above 500, but the numbers flashed too rapidly for me to even see what the secondary number was.

As you BHop, you'll probably experience 3 different speeds... the lowest, the middle, and the top. All of this will, probably, happen in one hop.

I'll add that in as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmellyCat
The bhop one is hard to record meaningfully because everyone has a different technique and so without a hard cap like TFC people can reach different levels. I've not gone through thorough testing on each class but for me it is very possible to build up to and maintain 500-530 speeds as scout, and I'm sure that there are people that can maintain it between 510-535 or higher?
There's a hard BHop cap in place and 530 is pretty much it. Because of how the game drags you on the ground after each jump, you will always lose some speed. To see what I mean, pick a map that has a long hall in it (or make your own), BHop in a circle for speed, and then jump in one direction down it while using jump queuing. You'll notice a decrease with each jump, with the first (530) dropping dramatically. This is also testable in ff_dm, but you'll only see the effect of the first few jumps.

You'll eventually come back down to your base run speed given enough distance.

The reason for this is to enforce the hard BHop cap after being pushed at incredible rates. At least, that's what I figure the reason for it is.
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Old 02-25-2008, 06:56 AM   #8
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I guess you meant base bhop speed, but even then - with air movement I believe it's possible to keep a further ~10% or so faster than that figure.


ah yes,
Quote:
Originally Posted by AfterShock
For example. a scout's base speed is 400, bhop cap is 480, but due to the elasticity you can maintain a speed of around 500. Wiggling also maintains around 500 speed. Glide jumping takes you to around 540 (actually with practice you can bring your glide jumps up to around 580 and probably beyond).
I'm just curious to know what that "around 500" speed really is and what the "beyond" figure is on the glide jump.
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Old 02-25-2008, 10:02 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmellyCat
I guess you meant base bhop speed, but even then - with air movement I believe it's possible to keep a further ~10% or so faster than that figure.
No, I meant base run speed. You lose momentum with each jump until you hit your base run speed again. While it takes a long time and is not noticeable, the effect is still there and present with the speedometer.

After the first jump, you will be at 480 on the speedometer, the second yanks you down to about 475, and then it decreases by increments of 2's and 3's until you get back down to 400.

In short, the faster you are traveling, the faster you will decelerate. The closer you are to your base run speed, the slower you will decelerate.

This goes with either jump queuing or traditional TFC BHop.

Test it out on ff_dm. Get any amount of BHop speed and then stop BHopping and only jumping. You will notice your speed will decrease with each jump. This speed decrease is the reason why 480 is the bottom of each of your jumps and your average BHop speed will be 500 as the scout.
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Old 02-25-2008, 11:54 PM   #10
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Next time it's not so late I'll have to check it out but iirc you can keep above 500 as your min' value when bunyhopping a scout.

I'll come back to you once I have some figures I think.
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Old 02-26-2008, 01:12 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmellyCat
Next time it's not so late I'll have to check it out but iirc you can keep above 500 as your min' value when bunyhopping a scout.

I'll come back to you once I have some figures I think.
That's pretty much one of the rumors that has been floating around since 2.0.

You can easily get above 600 with ramp assisted BHops, but you'll drop right back down to 480 pretty rapidly without more ramp to help you out. The very nature of the BHop in this game wants to make you go 480, and no style can change that. You can go over this speed, but the second you touch the ground it shoots back down to it, or very close to it.

Remember to test this on any map that has a 100% flat surface (ff_dm, for example). A good place to test it is up on top of the arena.
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Old 02-26-2008, 01:48 AM   #12
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If you want MAXIMUM glide numbers, set host_timescale 0.1 and do the best glide humanly possible.

This will not only give you plenty of time to perfect the curve, but you'll be able to read the numbers as well.
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Old 02-26-2008, 01:49 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Credge
That's pretty much one of the rumors that has been floating around since 2.0.

You can easily get above 600 with ramp assisted BHops, but you'll drop right back down to 480 pretty rapidly without more ramp to help you out. The very nature of the BHop in this game wants to make you go 480, and no style can change that. You can go over this speed, but the second you touch the ground it shoots back down to it, or very close to it.

Remember to test this on any map that has a 100% flat surface (ff_dm, for example). A good place to test it is up on top of the arena.
You can maintain ~520 constantly. I am absolutely 100% positive because I do it/have done it SO much over the past weeks testing the training map.
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Old 02-26-2008, 02:34 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squeek.
You can maintain ~520 constantly. I am absolutely 100% positive because I do it/have done it SO much over the past weeks testing the training map.
It'd be great to get a vid of this since just testing it showed consistent 500 with dips to 480 on every landing.

http://www.mediafire.com/?pcumlrabsxn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Circuitous
If you want MAXIMUM glide numbers, set host_timescale 0.1 and do the best glide humanly possible.

This will not only give you plenty of time to perfect the curve, but you'll be able to read the numbers as well.
All this did was slow my actions (shots, grenades, etc) but not my movement.

Edit: Lame. Demos don't allow you to hud_speedometer 1.

Edit again: I came across an odd phenomenon just now.

While BHopping around, checking the decay, I came across an instance where it did not decay past 480. This was very interesting to me as I was doing the same thing I was doing before.

After many tests of just testing this, I found three things out.

1. In order to get your jump to decay you must not use queue jumping. Although your jump timing can be perfect a-la TFC, queue jumping does not decay.

2. The decay rate changes dramatically depending on if you queue jump or not.

3. BHop speeds are not effected by which method of jumping you use if both are done correctly.

I don't understand this.
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Last edited by Credge; 02-26-2008 at 07:35 AM.
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Old 02-27-2008, 09:10 AM   #15
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Double post, however...

The BHop portion of this guide will be changed dramatically. I'll go over the variable ranges for both queue jump BHop and traditional BHop (space right as you land). I notice very little difference in servers with 50 or so ping, however, in servers I create, there is a difference in 30 average speed between the two styles.

Also, when jumping in a straight line after a BHop, you will not go below the BHop cap is you are queue jumping. You will however drop below the BHop cap if you jump traditionally.
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Old 02-27-2008, 07:46 PM   #16
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People don't use jump queuing? Sure your hop will be slower if your timing is off.

After further testing, you can keep scout moving at 500-520 (maybe more if I was better). Have you been using jump queuing? If not, that might be why your speeds are lower?


I wont argue about the decay, though.
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Old 02-27-2008, 09:10 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmellyCat
People don't use jump queuing? Sure your hop will be slower if your timing is off.

After further testing, you can keep scout moving at 500-520 (maybe more if I was better). Have you been using jump queuing? If not, that might be why your speeds are lower?


I wont argue about the decay, though.
Rgr, haven't been using jump queuing as it's habit from TFC.

One thing I've noticed is that the window for BHop jumping in FF is much smaller than in TFC, or it appears that way on servers with super-low ping (5 ping and such). I'm unsure as to why ping matters so much, though.

Anyway, I'll be gathering the next set of data (Super Shotgun, Single Shotty, and Crowbar) info tomorrow and should have it up later that day. I'll be testing the damage it does at varying ranges, the spread at various ranges (with pictures!), and how many shots it takes to kill a person at various ranges.

I'll be testing this against all classes using the Soldier.

After that, I'll be testing each classes special weapons one or two at a time, depending on how quickly I can get through them all.
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Old 02-28-2008, 09:35 PM   #18
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Added another section taken from: http://www.fortress-forever.com/foru...331#post333331

Will be adding in more soon!
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Old 03-03-2008, 01:24 PM   #19
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2 thumbs up for your hard work, man
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Old 03-08-2008, 04:53 AM   #20
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Small update with soldier rocket damage. It's not complete and not entirely accurate, but gives a good damage range. Some of the damage values don't add up with the armor class of the class and this is why the engineer is being redone. I think I'm wrong about his armor class though as he took about the same amount of health and armor damage as the soldier and heavy.
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