Fortress Forever

Go Back   Fortress Forever > Community > Communities, Leagues, Clans and Guilds

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-04-2017, 03:43 PM   #1
AfterShock
Fortress Forever Staff
 
AfterShock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts Rated Helpful 44 Times
Pyro competitive / pickup feedback

The new pyro has been out for a few months now, and according to the class graph (http://parser.ffpickup.com/v2/classes/) it's not played much since release. Is this because it's simply too weak, or hard to play, or is it more just everyone's used to playing scout/medic?
AfterShock is offline   Reply With Quote


1 members found this post helpful.
Old 01-04-2017, 04:22 PM   #2
9u-9u-9u
Beta Tester
 
9u-9u-9u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Class/Position: Demoman
Gametype: pipe spawn
Posts Rated Helpful 118 Times
it's banned right now in pickups. when it was changed we'd allow it once in awhile or for a week stretch but lately it's been outlawed for at least the past month.

as far as i can tell emotions are high because it's either too powerful, too irritating to play against, breaks up the game from traditional play, or more often a combination of all of the above

Last edited by 9u-9u-9u; 01-04-2017 at 04:44 PM. Reason: added more words
9u-9u-9u is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 01-04-2017, 06:10 PM   #3
FDA_Approved
Beta Tester
 
FDA_Approved's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Gametype: Capture the Flag
Posts Rated Helpful 287 Times
It mainly didn't get played because "it's pyro". Nobody really wanted to take the time to adjust to it and see how it really played out. There's not always a lot of pugs going on, and when the pyro was released a few people would complain that they just wanted to play "a normal game" since we don't play that often.

There were games where the pyro seemed to get tons of kills. How ever the pyro seems pretty easy to mow down for an HW playing his spot. That's why I don't think people really adjusted well. The games where pyro seemed to get out of hand, it seems to me like it was just a chaotic mess where front line got caught out of position too often. Honestly the pyro is so slow the HW should have no problem dealing with it on most maps.

It takes longer for the soldier to deal with, leading to more of a health loss for the soldier. But he should still be able to kill or heavily weaken the pyro.

The pyro was mechanically fun to play, and I can't really say wether it was OP or UP. (most apparently thought it was OP.) But I can't totally blame people for not wanting it in pugs. It's balance is strange.

First of all it's pretty slow, and it can't really get into FR well. And it really can't deal with an SG. This leaves the pyro as a sort of front line DM class, which isn't really a very helpful offensive role. The D resets pretty fast on most maps, and it doesn't really help the scouts and medics get in. And once the pyro does kill a frontline defender, it doesn't help him get in either. He's to slow to close the gap on an SG, and sucks at sniping it. I think what you'd normally see is just the pyro getting a bunch of front line kills and not really helping the objective much if at all. (it probably shines best when the flag in or moving towards foyar)

The jet pack is poorly balanced too. It's not too fast, but it is pretty much infinite. If you got in and got the flag untouched, you were pretty much gone with it, because your speed was much more consistent, instead of in bursts like scouts and meds.

And really the pyro is just not that fun to play against. to put it simply, most of us like to go fast, and shoot at fast guys. I really do think that's what it boils down to. The pyro comes floating in pretty slow, you either hose him down on the way in, or he gets in and deals significant damage. Most people complain about his health and time to kill as well.
__________________
Currently equipped: Rad Scarf of liberating happiness.

Last edited by FDA_Approved; 01-04-2017 at 06:13 PM.
FDA_Approved is offline   Reply With Quote


4 members found this post helpful.
Old 01-04-2017, 06:20 PM   #4
FDA_Approved
Beta Tester
 
FDA_Approved's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Gametype: Capture the Flag
Posts Rated Helpful 287 Times
Few more thoughts:

IC jumps and pogos could help bring you up to speed, but lead to you getting mowed down faster. (IC's self damage is very weak, but it takes a few to get you going)

The IC is a spam cannon, should probably reduce RoF.

90% of pyro deaths were caused by crater.
__________________
Currently equipped: Rad Scarf of liberating happiness.
FDA_Approved is offline   Reply With Quote


1 members found this post helpful.
Old 01-04-2017, 08:17 PM   #5
AfterShock
Fortress Forever Staff
 
AfterShock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts Rated Helpful 44 Times
Great feedback, thanks. I'd be interested to hear anyone elses opinion if you could encourage others to post that'd be great.
AfterShock is offline   Reply With Quote


1 members found this post helpful.
Old 01-05-2017, 03:18 AM   #6
hadez
Beta Tester
 
hadez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Boston, Massachusetts
Gametype: Capture the Flag
Posts Rated Helpful 20 Times
pyro to me is a great fix and his speed adds to the game tremendously. I enjoyed playing it the ONE TIME that i got to play it on schtop and wouldn't mind playing against it in competitive pickups. Please do not reduce the speed of the pyro, it feels like it works with most maps.

On a huge side note about the graph you posted:

scout use way up
medic use way down
spy use almost invisible

There are at least 4-5 maps that used to be played often that are impossible to medic and/or spy on because of speed and the removal of the ability to use your conc with a jumppad. Jumppad needs to go back to old version or figure out a way to make it more useful. A ton of great maps were made with the old jumppad distance in consideration and in my eyes are now "broken".
hadez is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 01-12-2017, 03:00 AM   #7
rawDawg
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Cleveland
Class/Position: any class
Gametype: mulch_dm
Affiliations: ( GoodFellas )
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
Pyro has never been allowed in pickups in qwtf, or tfc, and for years in ff. Just please remove the class instead of trying to make it work. #makefortressgreatagain #pyrosdontmatter
rawDawg is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 01-12-2017, 01:28 PM   #8
caesium
Fortress Forever Staff
 
caesium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: europe
Class/Position: anything
Gametype: everything
Affiliations: #teamfail
Posts Rated Helpful 24 Times
Good point.
__________________
Support FF:
caesium is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 01-13-2017, 03:14 PM   #9
Iggy
Heartless Threadkiller
Beta Tester
Forum Moderator
 
Iggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Class/Position: D-Solly / O-Medic
Gametype: CTF
Affiliations: [AE] AssEaters
Posts Rated Helpful 40 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by rawDawg View Post
Pyro has never been allowed in pickups in qwtf, or tfc, and for years in ff. Just please remove the class instead of trying to make it work. #makefortressgreatagain #pyrosdontmatter
Remove something that's been in the game since it's original incarnation??

If you're looking for the PC way to do it, how about we instead modify the Pyro, turn him into a rainbow coloured SJW who runs around firing peace signs at you. If he hits you with one, you can't fire any weapon for five minutes. Meanwhile, the theme song from 'Two Broke Girls" plays from the time you're hit until the time it wears off.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by zSilver_Fox
See kids? Only Iggy and FT are good enough to post when high.
Publishers Website My book on BN.com My book on Amazon.com

Friend me on Facebook
Follow me on Twitter
Iggy is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 01-13-2017, 07:24 PM   #10
AfterShock
Fortress Forever Staff
 
AfterShock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts Rated Helpful 44 Times
FDA, is this about right as your thoughts?

1. The pyro gets away with the flag too easily, players feel helpless to stop him as he flies away whilst they shoot him in the back. This is particularly true once the flag is into an open space.
2. Specialising as a front line defender DMer is not fun for the front line defender
3. Specialising as a front line defender DMer is not useful, as the front line defense gets back to position too fast
4. He's too bad at killing SGs (on certain maps?), which means after he's killed a front line defender, his best tactic is to wait until that defender gets back, and kill him again, which is boring (for the pyro) and annoying as the defender
5. The jetpack is slow and people like shooting fast people (this could also be that it's hard to hit / too maneuverable in the air / unpredictable)
6. Feels a bit all-or-nothing with his damage, if he gets in, he can cause a lot of damage, but if you stop him then he doesnt do a lot

If so I would be interested in which of those is the more important to deal with.

I'd be interested to hear if people think he's "too different" to the medic and scout, and simply bringing him and his mechanics closer to how they play would be potentially simpler / better / less risky.

Last edited by AfterShock; 01-13-2017 at 07:25 PM.
AfterShock is offline   Reply With Quote


1 members found this post helpful.
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.