Team Fortress 2

[GhOsT]

Originally Posted by Agret

I'm not a die-hard vet, I played it back when it was popular and no longer play (I did play the other day in #tfc.gather, I don't think people appreciated that though ). I still want the concs in TF2 though, it just wouldn't be the medic without the conc :P

I was replying to a post complaining about the lack of experience the interviewers had and the information they presented in the interview. My point was not that only vets would care that concs are gone. It's that only vets will care about all the special "skill" moves you can do while the "n00bs" will care more about the general mechanics of the game.

Originally Posted by Agret

They're so much fun although you don't really use concs for jumping in any sort of serious match.

Huh? That's the backbone of any organized offense in TFC. There's always at least 2 medics going for the flag specifically because they carry concs.

[tu!]

Originally Posted by Agret

They're so much fun although you don't really use concs for jumping in any sort of serious match.

what are you smoking.

[SmellyCat]

I prefered the original, tu.

[zSilver_Fox]

They mean recreational matches and for more fun things, not HH-Rampslide-Frag.

[Agret]

Originally Posted by GhOsT

Huh? That's the backbone of any organized offense in TFC. There's always at least 2 medics going for the flag specifically because they carry concs.

Yeah but you shouldn't use concs to fly out of your base or to get to a camp spot or something stupid. In a proper match you'd only use concs in the flag room, concing back to your base or concing an enemy. I suppose there are some exceptions where you'd use them to get into the base though

[mistermojo]

Originally Posted by Agret

Yeah but you shouldn't use concs to fly out of your base or to get to a camp spot or something stupid. In a proper match you'd only use concs in the flag room, concing back to your base or concing an enemy. I suppose there are some exceptions where you'd use them to get into the base though

Originally Posted by tu!

what are you smoking.

[Iggy]

Originally Posted by GhOsT

That attitude right there is one of the reasons the TFC community wasn't as big as it could've been.

These types of interviews are what new games need. New people considering playing TF2 can care less if a scout can bhop or a medic can still conc jump. Only the die hard vets do and honestly most of them are most likely going to at least try the game anyway.

The TFC community is larger than just the people who have played it for 7 years and know everything there is to know about the game.

I didn't mean that they should have only watched die-hard vets....far from it. But, you can't judge a community as a whole on the gameplay of relative newbies. I have seen non-clan members, some of whom have a decent knowledge of the game, organize a good team effort. I have also seen complete morons tossing nades in every direction, shooting anything that moves, while not even knowing there is a flag in the game. What I was trying to get across, is that a temporary pub server, with no backing community at all, will only bring out the worst kind of player. You can't write an article based on that kind of information...or, I should say, not an informative article.

As for the 3 engies.....3 Engies working together, can have 3 SGs set up, at level 3, in 1 minute or less. Give me 2 engies who will cooperate, and I will prove this. It's a matter of teamwork. Toss an idiot into the mix, and you can call it a day.

[Fail]

Iggy, CLEARLY you did not understand the point he was making which was with multiple engineers you could put up an SG in less time.

[groovyf]

It's great fun playing dusty when you've got 3 engies all helping each other and spannering everyone else

[qui]

Apart from when they build an sg hugging yours

[BobTheChainsaw]

The problem with TF2 is that everyone wants it to be the same game with pretty graphics. C'mon guys, this isn't TFC UPGRADED, this is an entirely new game.

And if you want TFC with pretty graphics, just play fortress forever.

[Formaldehyde]

I would love to play a new version of TF... like, TF with some "twists" if you wish. When I saw the first TF2 screens and videos, I tought it would be like that so of course I was really excited.

Then.... after reading the latest interviews, it sounds like they didn't CHANGE the game, they just made it EASIER. TF2 now sounds like it's TFC -movement, -concs, -grenades, -ctf, -whatever... many things removed and almost nothing new (apart from medic being able to make people invulnerable... which is pretty lame).

[FrenchToast]

Originally Posted by BobTheChainsaw

And if you want TFC with pretty graphics, just play fortress forever.

I believe it's been made quite clear in the past that FF is not TFC.

If you want to play TFC, then go play TFC.

[BobTheChainsaw]

Well Robin Walker made Team Fortress, and he likes TF2. I don't think he would let us down.


But eh, it might suck.

[AmazingNurseEnrique]

Originally Posted by Formaldehyde

I would love to play a new version of TF... like, TF with some "twists" if you wish. When I saw the first TF2 screens and videos, I tought it would be like that so of course I was really excited.

Then.... after reading the latest interviews, it sounds like they didn't CHANGE the game, they just made it EASIER. TF2 now sounds like it's TFC -movement, -concs, -grenades, -ctf, -whatever... many things removed and almost nothing new (apart from medic being able to make people invulnerable... which is pretty lame).

"Perfection in design is not achieved when there's nothing left to add, but only when there's nothing left to take away." I can 't remember who said that, but it's bloody brilliant.

The things that are being taken away are additions, in a gameplay sense. The removal of these elements is a huge change to gameplay, and the way the natural metagame evolves will change as a result. The game now becomes about different play, classes are more diversified as a result.

Did they make it easier to pick up and learn TF2 than TFC? For the love of God I hope so. As long as a high level of skill is required for mastery of the game, I don't care if a 5 year old can log in and have fun playing. Allowing new players easy access to your game is -key- to surviving in the market, which equates to continued support for competitive play via 3rd-party leagues and 1st-party patch updates.

While these are elements we've grown to love, TF's core gameplay has nothing to do with concing, grenade priming, BHopping, trimping, skimming, any off that. Those are the systems in one version of Fortress, but are not essential or core gameplay elements. The class system, the arcadey feel, the teamplay and significant role difference are what is core to Fortress, which TF2 not only maintains well, but exemplifies.

And, there are a number of things TF2 is adding;

-- Control point and and Capture-and-hold gameplay as a forefront

-- Better class balance (from a theory standpoint, but it is a goal either way)

-- Improved accessibility, tooltips, and learning resources

-- New maps and content

These things are all significant, but about all we want them to add. It's not a time to add a 10th class, or lasers, or grappling hooks, or other things that add too much but offer little.

Simplifying a bogged-down system (and face it, for everyone but the top 5% TFC is incredibly over-complex) is a good thing for almost any game, as long as the systems are simple but the gameplay is deep. Most strong classic games follow this formula, such as Go, Chess, the Street Fighter series, Starcraft, etc. TFC's popularity is limited by its complexity. That means its life is limited by that lack of popularity, and then the top 5% have an unsupported game to play and will crave something new.

I'm glad Valve is learning from their mistakes as opposed to repeating them.

[BobTheChainsaw]

IGN just did a hands-on impression, and they say the game is still violent as hell. Niiiice.

[Serik]

Yeah that IGN preview was too short and rehashed most of what I've already read.

+Valve won't charge for extra content. Thank god they're not interested in nickel-and-diming like the bastards at EA. I'm not surprised, but it's good to hear.

+The sniper still has the red dot. hoorah

+Still no word on respawn time or times-to-kill.

In any event, TF2 sounds fun as hell. Can't wait to see screenshots of the new Dustbowl.

[paranoidkirb]

I don't remember anything on the red dot. As far as I know, it's just an AWP now.

[Norris]

Originally Posted by paranoidkirb

I don't remember anything on the red dot. As far as I know, it's just an AWP now.

no it isn't.

http://pc.ign.com/articles/780/780666p2.html

Snipers do exactly what you might expect: snipe. The effectiveness of their shot changes, however, becoming deadly accurate once you've held the rifle scope up long enough and a red dot appears on your targeting reticule. Unfortunately for snipers, the dot also appears on the surface of wherever you're aiming, tipping off enemies. Still, these guys are a lot of fun for ripping off a few one-hit headshots. Once combat range closes in, however, the Sniper's submachine gun and machete are a poor alternative to whatever firepower your opponent brings to the battle.

[Agret]

o.O Sniper gets a machete, cool.