FF Epicenter (Beta 2 DL)

[o_morrow]

heard it was a really good idea. but alot of "professional mappers" say it doesnt make much of a diffrence adn i shouldnt waste my time with it until i get more skilled.


think he referd to it as professional runners shaving there whole bodys. doesnt make much of a diffrence unless your a pro.

[o_jerm]

every texture is counted by hammer, and you can only have so many per map. thats why people mapping for hl usually made the texture sizes double their original sizes.

Tho hammer 4 lets you have a considerable amount more textures in your maps, you can't get away with anything higher than .25 for the texture size, without it looking stupid (some textures can, others are shit).

So thats why the nodraw texture helps so much, it gets rid of over double the amount of textures you have in you map. Letting you make a map, that's alot larger

[o_ginger lord]

Yeah most of the ones you don't see are NODRAW. Comes from habit of doing it on the HL engine, with the NULL texture scaled up.

I'd start using NODRAW now so you get into a habit of it, it really does make a difference. It did anyway back in HL1.

The blue side of the map takes two and half minutes to compile on a fast compile, doubles on a full. So when I have mirrored it it should be around 10 minutes. Sounds really small, but Epicenter is small, just well disguised. My old DoD maps took over 3 hours on a final compile to do, when I first ported one into Source the same map on full took 30 mins.

I'm not sure why I changed the spawn room floor, It will probably go back to the original as it looks better and makes the place lighter.

Here's some Hammer shots to show it's not *that* complicated:



Ok, so you may think thats complicated, look at this:



This is a DoD: Source custom map I'm working on, what you see there is pretty much the first area of the map, multi stage map, complete first area, second opens up. The second area is about three times as large as the first.


Edit: A key point I've been trying to make is to remove all the ladders in the map. I hate ladders passionatly. They have no place in maps, they look odd with people floating up them and generally are annoying and frustrating. So all the ladders have been replaced with stairwells, either L shaped or spiral which adds a nice touch.

[o_fresh]

i like your idea about making the rubble "walk through" i mean we dont want to be making a DoD map for TFC and i cant speak for anyone here but personaly i am pleased with the fact that your keeping gameplay in mind and not creating some WW2-style-moody-detail-non-conc-fest that you cant conc/bhop/play through.

I look forward to the rebirth of a classic!

[Mulchman MM]

Originally Posted by Ginger Lord

it just looked odd, lots of it out of scale trying to keep the TFC style of it.

I don't want to be a dick or anything, but it does look out of scale in a couple of pics - most notably this one.

Don't get me wrong though, the screens you posted look quite good.

[o_ginger lord]

Just curious as to what you think's out of scale there? I reckon its the APC that does it. All the buildings are standard scales, admittedly the walls are thicker than average, each story is 128 units high, walls in that pic are 32 thick, I usually use 16. I've removed the APC and it does make it look a lot better. Its pretty much dead on exact proportions to the TFC map, I guess the changes to the viewpoint and viewangle (being less than old HL) makes things look odd, along with the small APC's in the original, they were like 1/3 scale.

Don't worry about being a dick, you're not. I prefer constructive critiscm over lots of "yeah looks good". Whilst it's nice for the ego, the map gets nowhere without critiscm.

Pic without the APC:


Still not happy with the buildings are the spawn area, they look blocky and clunky and just don't fit. Its hard to put something in there, the original had some odd battlement style things that were completely random and made no sense being there.

[o_etzell]

The gap looks really thin.

[o_imbrifer]

Looks good.

Sorry, just had to. Watch for the window texture in the back wrapping around the crack in the wall - it would be cool if the window was partly shattered, but now it just looks awkward. Maybe consider displacement mapping the road a small bit, or some rubbled areas. Maybe make the flat rubbled edges of the buildings into displacement-mapped rubbled edges?

Consider making some trim 3-dimensional - Source has a lot of capabilities, but still we dont want to destroy the computers of the less fortunate.

Ed: Oh, and I think the orange generator with the wires going straight to the lights looks a little odd with the red coloring around it. Maybe change the generator, or make the cords go along the ground and up the wall, or straight to the wall then up to the lights a bit or something?

It looks great - a real TF feel: not too much detail, well-done architecture, relaxed colors... Keep up the good work!

[Mulchman MM]

Originally Posted by Ginger Lord

Just curious as to what you think's out of scale there? I reckon its the APC that does it.

No, it's not the APC. I think it's because the left building looks too skinny for its height. The crack/hole in the wall has something to do with this as well. It just strikes me as out of proportion.

[o_sobe green]

Yea I'm seeing that same thing. That "building" should be stretched out a bit more. Its really hard to explain.

[o_player]

TFC Epicenter:

[o_player]

TFC Epicenter:



The building with the big crack in it on the TFC version of Epicenter, has a much bigger crack in it than yours. The big damaged wall to the far left on the TFC version is further to the left and ending when the building starts. Your version is further to the right. These two factors make that particular screenshot look out of place and out of scale.

[o_fresh]

i think it needs to be alot more open and fluid, remeber you dont have to go for realism.

the map looks good but it now needs to play well. I think there bay where the APC resides is too boxed around it, give it space. Just generally make the land and shit bigger

[o_drtom]

2nd floor texture too low res and too dark given the amount of light in the room. apc too far forward, hole in wall by apc too narrow.
it looks so ace though, probably the best looking map on its way for ff so far !

[o_morrow]

yeah a little bigger to get players thru. tho almost any other game id say its perfect.

other then that my only big beef (besides the one in my pants) would be the APC looking lame.

[o_mj]

wow finally a decent lookin remake for FF

good job!

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by Ginger Lord

Edit: A key point I've been trying to make is to remove all the ladders in the map. I hate ladders passionatly. They have no place in maps, they look odd with people floating up them and generally are annoying and frustrating.

You're my hero!

[o_morrow]

Yaah i dont really know why V didnt fix those. give it some kind of animation when someone climbs a ladder.


would say why doesnt FF do something like that but that would be just more work to do. plus You will miss it if there are no ladders anymore.

[o_morrow]

on a second note that would be awsome if you could cut your opposing teams POWER so there elevators would be useless unless like 2 of there engies fix the transformer or what ever.


make it so they are stuck on like 2 levels. unless they have ramps.


WELL would be fun like that.

[Circuitous]

Originally Posted by Morrow

Yaah i dont really know why V didnt fix those. give it some kind of animation when someone climbs a ladder.


would say why doesnt FF do something like that but that would be just more work to do. plus You will miss it if there are no ladders anymore.

The problem with ladders in the game is that you can't animate it and still keep everything working properly, 'cause you'd always fall off whenever you took a shot, reloaded, tossed a grenade, etc., etc. Just gotta deal with floating.