Is there a faster way to compile?

Dr.Satan · 05-30-2008, 05:57 AM

Ok here is my conundrum:

For my map, a full compile with -fast vvis takes approx. 45 - 90 min (total).

Currently I am in hour (yes hour) 21 of a full compile w/out -fast vis and have changed nothing since the last compile.

Does anyone have any idea why it would be taking this long and / or is there an external program I could use to run a full compile that would be faster?

GeoKill-----> · 05-30-2008, 06:38 AM

Well its the same problem you always had... you need more RAM probably.

Dr.Satan · 05-30-2008, 06:42 AM

lmao, I know that...but I don't really have time to get more and get this map out!

It's done, everything is finished, I just need to be able to run this freeking compile, pakrat the textures, and zip it up!

Ihmhi · 05-30-2008, 06:56 AM

Send the map to someone with a faster computer. Many mappers resort to that.

Dr.Satan · 05-30-2008, 09:26 AM

lol yeah I'm thinking I'm going to have to!

Dr.Satan · 05-30-2008, 05:19 PM

...so yeah it's been over 30hrs and still hasn't moved.

Anyone out there want to lend your superior computer to me for a few hours so I can compile this dam map? I will send you all the files, I just need help with the full compile.

A1win · 05-30-2008, 05:25 PM

Have you considered optimizing the actual map? Remove sloped faces or make them func_detail etc? 30 hours sounds ridiculous even on a slow machine.

GambiT · 05-30-2008, 05:33 PM

send it to me satan i'll compile it.

would you like for me to check on things in it to optimize better as well?

Dr.Satan · 05-30-2008, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A1win

Have you considered optimizing the actual map? Remove sloped faces or make them func_detail etc? 30 hours sounds ridiculous even on a slow machine.

yeah I mean that is the issue...I have checked everything, converted it all to func_details, hint brushes where I can, etc...it was talking this long before (I had like 30 - 50 tiny leaks that were blocked by the skybox) so I cleaned that all up too, and ran a ton of fast compiles and it was fine...45 min most times. Then I finished everything up and tried to run the full compile and wham...time up to 30+, although honestly I don't really think it's that long, at about 5hrs it stopped at "BuildFacelights: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6.." and then never moved from there. So I'm thinking my computer crapped out at that point and just stopped trying (even though it pretended to)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GambiT

send it to me satan i'll compile it.

would you like for me to check on things in it to optimize better as well?

Cool, I'll get it all ready for ya and send it off.

A1win · 05-30-2008, 10:04 PM

Since you are stuck on RAD, hint brushes, func_details and all that have absolutely no effect on the compile time. You need to decrease the number of sloped surfaces or the number of any surfaces, decrease the number of light sources or increase the lightmap scale on some faces to get faster compiles. There are lots of ways of optimizing a map for RAD.

**squeek.** · 05-30-2008, 10:06 PM

I would bet it's lightmap scaling. Fixing Pitfall's made compile time go from 3 hours to ~50 minutes.

Nezumi · 05-31-2008, 02:04 AM

The best solution is to find a computer with a multi-core processor. Tiger would have taken more than a day to vis, or would have never finished on my computer, but was done in under 8 hours on my friends superior PC.

Not the most elegant solution but it can work.

GambiT · 05-31-2008, 02:09 AM

he sent it to me, i have a quad core 2.4, and 4 gb of ram...

Nezumi · 05-31-2008, 02:18 AM

Should do

Gator- · 05-31-2008, 03:35 AM

ah you missed out on my Dual Intel Xeon x5355 .. 8 cores in total, 2 Raid 0 WD 15,000 RPM HD, 6 gb ram ... i would of helped

Dr.Satan · 05-31-2008, 05:50 AM

lol you guys all rock! I really appreciate the help.

does anyone know of a nice place to read up about the lightmap scale? I read the valve wiki and did a quick search on google, but no really good tut's popped out. Also though, from what I read, that seems like it will make my lighting all messed up and fuck with the shadows on my map right? If that's the case, I'm not really super concerned about it if I can use someone else to compile...or even if I had an 8 hr compile b/c I did the lighting the way I did on purpose and I would hate to have to compromise that just for a faster compile.

Ginger Lord · 05-31-2008, 03:29 PM

Lightmap scale is best left to default. Does the job fine unless you want some super sharp shadow definition in which case lower it down to 8,4 or 2. Will increase compile time though.

A1win · 05-31-2008, 05:49 PM

I was just giving hints about how to decrease compile time, and increasing the lightmap scale is one option. It doesn't look that bad if you increase it in places where players rarely go like some huge cliffs etc.

Dr.Satan · 05-31-2008, 07:23 PM

yeah the problem is that it's all places they go b/c it's a concmap, so they hit the ceilings and are concing up those cliffs.

**Crazycarl** · 05-31-2008, 10:56 PM

A lightmap is like a bitmap; it's made up of a grid of squares (luxels). The number you put in the face properties box defines the size in units of each luxel. Bigger luxels means less resolution. Smaller luxels will make vrad run longer because it has to subdivide each face, then it has to calculate light bounce data for each luxel. It also has an effect on file size and memory usage.

What I do is start with the default, then raise the size on large brushes, where it will be most effective. Roofs are a good place to start because they get pretty even lighting and the player doesn't look at them closely. On walls where the player will be up close, I usually leave it at 16. If it's a really large map you might bump the whole map up to 32 and work from there.

Then I compile and test the map, specifically looking at shadows. I make special note of where I see contrast between light and shadow. If they appear blurry, or "jaggy" (where a diagonal shadow looks like stair steps), I go back and lower those faces. I also look for faces that are evenly lit. Those faces can go higher, because a brush that is in full light, or full shadow doesn't need the extra resolution.

It's an extra step in the mapping process but it's helpful. You don't need to spend a great deal of time on it either.

05-30-2008, 05:57 AM	#1
Dr.Satan Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Greeley, CO Class/Position: Med / Solly Gametype: PAYLOAD Affiliations: DET- Posts Rated Helpful 19 Times	Is there a faster way to compile? Ok here is my conundrum: For my map, a full compile with -fast vvis takes approx. 45 - 90 min (total). Currently I am in hour (yes hour) 21 of a full compile w/out -fast vis and have changed nothing since the last compile. Does anyone have any idea why it would be taking this long and / or is there an external program I could use to run a full compile that would be faster? __________________ FF Community Map Pack(s): 1 / 2 (Released) conc_school \| hellion_classic \| ksour_PAYLOAD \| mulch_faf (Beta) alchimy_b1 (Lua) base_payload_2015 (Models) props_trainyard Support FF:

05-30-2008, 06:38 AM	#2
GeoKill-----> Community Member Server Owner Beta Tester Forum Moderator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Hawthorne, California Class/Position: Soldier/Spy/Scout Gametype: AvD Affiliations: :e0:Eternal Order Leader Posts Rated Helpful 12 Times	Well its the same problem you always had... you need more RAM probably. __________________ Fortress-Forever Guides All Your Mapping Needs :e0: Will live on Forever Support FF:

05-30-2008, 06:42 AM	#3
Dr.Satan Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Greeley, CO Class/Position: Med / Solly Gametype: PAYLOAD Affiliations: DET- Posts Rated Helpful 19 Times	lmao, I know that...but I don't really have time to get more and get this map out! It's done, everything is finished, I just need to be able to run this freeking compile, pakrat the textures, and zip it up! __________________ FF Community Map Pack(s): 1 / 2 (Released) conc_school \| hellion_classic \| ksour_PAYLOAD \| mulch_faf (Beta) alchimy_b1 (Lua) base_payload_2015 (Models) props_trainyard Support FF:

05-30-2008, 06:56 AM	#4
Ihmhi [AE] 0112 Ihmhi SJB Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Newark, NJ, United States Class/Position: A little bit o' everythin' Gametype: Also a little bit o' everythin' Affiliations: [AE] Asseater, SJB Straight Jacket Brigade Posts Rated Helpful 3 Times	Send the map to someone with a faster computer. Many mappers resort to that. __________________ Support FF: Anime: The Thread: Reloaded The one and only anime thread on these here forums. Select the pistol, and then, select your horse.

05-30-2008, 09:26 AM	#5
Dr.Satan Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Greeley, CO Class/Position: Med / Solly Gametype: PAYLOAD Affiliations: DET- Posts Rated Helpful 19 Times	lol yeah I'm thinking I'm going to have to! __________________ FF Community Map Pack(s): 1 / 2 (Released) conc_school \| hellion_classic \| ksour_PAYLOAD \| mulch_faf (Beta) alchimy_b1 (Lua) base_payload_2015 (Models) props_trainyard Support FF:

05-30-2008, 05:19 PM	#6
Dr.Satan Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Greeley, CO Class/Position: Med / Solly Gametype: PAYLOAD Affiliations: DET- Posts Rated Helpful 19 Times	...so yeah it's been over 30hrs and still hasn't moved. Anyone out there want to lend your superior computer to me for a few hours so I can compile this dam map? I will send you all the files, I just need help with the full compile. __________________ FF Community Map Pack(s): 1 / 2 (Released) conc_school \| hellion_classic \| ksour_PAYLOAD \| mulch_faf (Beta) alchimy_b1 (Lua) base_payload_2015 (Models) props_trainyard Support FF:

05-30-2008, 05:25 PM	#7
A1win Nutcracker Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Kuopio, Finland Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Have you considered optimizing the actual map? Remove sloped faces or make them func_detail etc? 30 hours sounds ridiculous even on a slow machine.

05-30-2008, 05:33 PM	#8
GambiT Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Baton Rouge Class/Position: Spy Affiliations: -=DoM=- Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	send it to me satan i'll compile it. would you like for me to check on things in it to optimize better as well? __________________ -------------------------------FF_Rock2(WIP)------------------------------ ---------------------------FF_RedGiant(Released)------------------------- --------------------------FF_Fragzone_G(Released)------------------------ --------------------------FF_Civibash_G(Released)------------------------ -------------------FF_Conc_G1(WIP)-------------------- -------------------FF_Hollow_G(WIP)---------------------

05-30-2008, 10:04 PM	#10
A1win Nutcracker Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Kuopio, Finland Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Since you are stuck on RAD, hint brushes, func_details and all that have absolutely no effect on the compile time. You need to decrease the number of sloped surfaces or the number of any surfaces, decrease the number of light sources or increase the lightmap scale on some faces to get faster compiles. There are lots of ways of optimizing a map for RAD.

05-30-2008, 10:06 PM	#11
squeek. Stuff Do-er Lua Team Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Northern California Class/Position: Rallygun Shooter Gametype: Conc tag (you just wait) Affiliations: Mustache Brigade Posts Rated Helpful 352 Times	I would bet it's lightmap scaling. Fixing Pitfall's made compile time go from 3 hours to ~50 minutes. __________________ #FF.Pickup ¤ Fortress-Forever pickups My Non-official Maps Released FF_DM_Squeek - FF_2Mesa3_Classic - FF_Siege_Classic Beta FF_Myth - FF_Redlight_Greenlight Sick of the people on the internet, always moanin'. They just moan. - Karl Pilkington

05-31-2008, 02:04 AM	#12
Nezumi Retired FF Staff Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: The Peoples Republic of Harmfull Free Radicals. Class/Position: Soldier, O Gametype: Doubble Mode Affiliations: Cassiotone Nation Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times	The best solution is to find a computer with a multi-core processor. Tiger would have taken more than a day to vis, or would have never finished on my computer, but was done in under 8 hours on my friends superior PC. Not the most elegant solution but it can work. __________________ TG: pretty much you have no idea how much i fuckin own at this game. TG: i bested no less than three flaming tornados and broke a huge wizard.

05-31-2008, 02:09 AM	#13
GambiT Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Baton Rouge Class/Position: Spy Affiliations: -=DoM=- Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	he sent it to me, i have a quad core 2.4, and 4 gb of ram... __________________ -------------------------------FF_Rock2(WIP)------------------------------ ---------------------------FF_RedGiant(Released)------------------------- --------------------------FF_Fragzone_G(Released)------------------------ --------------------------FF_Civibash_G(Released)------------------------ -------------------FF_Conc_G1(WIP)-------------------- -------------------FF_Hollow_G(WIP)---------------------

05-31-2008, 02:18 AM	#14
Nezumi Retired FF Staff Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: The Peoples Republic of Harmfull Free Radicals. Class/Position: Soldier, O Gametype: Doubble Mode Affiliations: Cassiotone Nation Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times	Should do __________________ TG: pretty much you have no idea how much i fuckin own at this game. TG: i bested no less than three flaming tornados and broke a huge wizard.

05-31-2008, 03:35 AM	#15
Gator- FF God Join Date: May 2007 Location: TX Class/Position: Scout O, Medic O, Demo D/O, Soldier D Gametype: CTF 4v4 Affiliations: [milkwood] ( GoodFellas ) Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times	ah you missed out on my Dual Intel Xeon x5355 .. 8 cores in total, 2 Raid 0 WD 15,000 RPM HD, 6 gb ram ... i would of helped __________________ FF_ROASTED_CLASSIC [RELEASED] FF_EVENFLOW_B2 [RELEASED] FF_OPPOSE_B1 [COMING SOON]

05-31-2008, 05:50 AM	#16
Dr.Satan Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Greeley, CO Class/Position: Med / Solly Gametype: PAYLOAD Affiliations: DET- Posts Rated Helpful 19 Times	lol you guys all rock! I really appreciate the help. does anyone know of a nice place to read up about the lightmap scale? I read the valve wiki and did a quick search on google, but no really good tut's popped out. Also though, from what I read, that seems like it will make my lighting all messed up and fuck with the shadows on my map right? If that's the case, I'm not really super concerned about it if I can use someone else to compile...or even if I had an 8 hr compile b/c I did the lighting the way I did on purpose and I would hate to have to compromise that just for a faster compile. __________________ FF Community Map Pack(s): 1 / 2 (Released) conc_school \| hellion_classic \| ksour_PAYLOAD \| mulch_faf (Beta) alchimy_b1 (Lua) base_payload_2015 (Models) props_trainyard Support FF:

05-31-2008, 03:29 PM	#17
Ginger Lord Retired FF Staff Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Sunny England Affiliations: Custard Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Lightmap scale is best left to default. Does the job fine unless you want some super sharp shadow definition in which case lower it down to 8,4 or 2. Will increase compile time though.

05-31-2008, 05:49 PM	#18
A1win Nutcracker Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Kuopio, Finland Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I was just giving hints about how to decrease compile time, and increasing the lightmap scale is one option. It doesn't look that bad if you increase it in places where players rarely go like some huge cliffs etc.

05-31-2008, 07:23 PM	#19
Dr.Satan Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Greeley, CO Class/Position: Med / Solly Gametype: PAYLOAD Affiliations: DET- Posts Rated Helpful 19 Times	yeah the problem is that it's all places they go b/c it's a concmap, so they hit the ceilings and are concing up those cliffs. __________________ FF Community Map Pack(s): 1 / 2 (Released) conc_school \| hellion_classic \| ksour_PAYLOAD \| mulch_faf (Beta) alchimy_b1 (Lua) base_payload_2015 (Models) props_trainyard Support FF:

05-31-2008, 10:56 PM	#20
Crazycarl D&A Member Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 31 Times	A lightmap is like a bitmap; it's made up of a grid of squares (luxels). The number you put in the face properties box defines the size in units of each luxel. Bigger luxels means less resolution. Smaller luxels will make vrad run longer because it has to subdivide each face, then it has to calculate light bounce data for each luxel. It also has an effect on file size and memory usage. What I do is start with the default, then raise the size on large brushes, where it will be most effective. Roofs are a good place to start because they get pretty even lighting and the player doesn't look at them closely. On walls where the player will be up close, I usually leave it at 16. If it's a really large map you might bump the whole map up to 32 and work from there. Then I compile and test the map, specifically looking at shadows. I make special note of where I see contrast between light and shadow. If they appear blurry, or "jaggy" (where a diagonal shadow looks like stair steps), I go back and lower those faces. I also look for faces that are evenly lit. Those faces can go higher, because a brush that is in full light, or full shadow doesn't need the extra resolution. It's an extra step in the mapping process but it's helpful. You don't need to spend a great deal of time on it either. __________________ Support FF:

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