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Old 06-25-2014, 12:05 AM   #121
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Great post, phish! (good to see you again )

I totally agree with distilling what makes it fun, and recreating the magic with something new. but I also think that designing an entire game from scratch using the abstract principles of TFC and FF is pretty hard. I think it's in some ways easier to change what you know, but obviously there is the danger of community backlash when you delete the sniper class, for example

For example, I would love to see a game invent a movement system as deep and complex and satisfying as bunny hopping, with intuitive controls. The idea is that purely moving around a map on your own should be fun, and difficult to optimise.

The whole concept of Movement vs DM is also such a great core concept.

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Old 06-25-2014, 12:48 AM   #122
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People have impossible individualized expectations for games based on other games, especially hardcore fans of the original. They can't see a modified game concept as a standalone thing, regardless if it's good or bad, they will always draw parallels to the original. This would be fine if every single person expected the same thing from a spinoff game, but literally every single person expects something different, to the point where the only way you would ever make the majority happy is to make a carbon copy of the original. This is one of the reasons expecting an existing community to be the basis of a spinoff's community is a bad idea.

The only way I could see a successful reinvention of the fortress concept is either to start a community of completely new players or present it in a way that's different enough from the original (eg not as a fortress game) that people don't draw parallels and can see the game for what it is.
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Old 06-25-2014, 03:22 AM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHISH View Post
Hell dev texture maps in source are very popular and they use something like 3 different textures.
In what hell do you think the dev texture maps are popular? They may have been popular shortly after their release, but IMO too much simplicity can be just as destructive as too much complexity. We need to find a balance between the two and limiting the textures to something too simple is not the answer. Maps need to be beautiful, but with great layouts and well optimized.


Regarding movement, I think the best way to approach whatever type of movement will be available in this new game is to make sure there are multiple outlets for people to learn the basics, like the FF training map. But I feel that's not enough. There need to be custom hud elements built to assist so a player can emulate something visual rather than simply following written or audible instructions. There needs to be more organization that focuses its efforts on making it simple for new players to learn the game, otherwise we're only going to end up where we are today with a game that few people are willing to learn.

A matchmaking system would also be of great benefit, one similar to CS:GO where you get matched up with players of your skill level rather than joining a pickup with veterans of the game. Easy to use, map choices, time limits, different game modes or rules to choose from. These all help make a system that is shown to work and I am not ashamed to go with another game's ideas (even TF2 for certain weapons) if those ideas would help make the game better.
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Old 06-25-2014, 12:30 PM   #124
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out of interest do we currently have a skilled : model maker, skinner, animator, texture artist.

Perhaps advertise on the main page news feed of positions that need to be filled.

Also go around to relevant uni website forms and post there too, must be lots of students looking to expand/create a portfolio for their studies who need a project like this they can sink teeth into.

Looks like plenty of work can be done now, no need to wait for source2.
Would be great to have as much done as possible, after source2 is released it would not take that long for map porting, not sure about coding.

Could strike on being one of the first mods to come out on it and thus pull in a large number of new players, keeping them however is another matter.

Note to Dexter: how is sdk2013 coming along?
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Old 06-26-2014, 03:59 PM   #125
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I still think U4E should be given a chance, but ultimately whichever one has the best anti cheat protection is the one I'd side with, at which point I'm not sure.

Regarding having FF2 be a TFC remake versus a completely revamped/restyled fortress game, I was talking to one of the devs recently and they brought up an excellent idea that hopefully comes to fruition: Being able to change the game mode on the fly via matchmaking as Moto pointed out above. ie) Wanna play FF 1.0 mode with no speed hardcap? How about 1.1 with nail grenades versus lasers? Medpack boosts anyone? Sticky grenades? No? Fine you can have 2.46 too, just change the setting when you create a game.

In the beginning however, just so there's not constant discrepancies over what should & shouldn't be done, it would be easier for the devs to all be on the same page to plow through the initial stages. After that, then come together for a meeting of the minds. Just my 2
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Old 06-26-2014, 05:01 PM   #126
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The problem with that is it segments the community too much. With all the variations of QTF, TFC AND FF... how many versions is that? How many people are playing all those games total right now? Why would they want to play the new version when the old works just fine and they have their structured communities?

You gotta realize people want instant gratification which these skill based arena shooters don't give. Sure it'll probably be popular for a few days/week just like FF was originally then they'll go back to their normal games once they realize its just rehash material.

People want new. Not the same thing. I love FF for what it is, every version of it but I'd rather see a new, evolved version of it with modernized (to some extent) play at this point. I would bet any amount it would get more players that way.

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Old 06-26-2014, 06:25 PM   #127
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The problem with that is it segments the community too much.
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Old 06-26-2014, 08:20 PM   #128
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To be fair, our horrible personalities do a good enough job of that as it is, FDA.
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Old 06-26-2014, 08:34 PM   #129
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To address Aftershock's point about an intuitive movement system, I'm trying to think of games that have movement that is not Bunnyhop based.

Tribes: Skiing and Jetpacks
Warsow: Wall Jumping (In addition to BHop)

Beyond that, my mind is blanking.

Any thoughts?
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Old 06-26-2014, 08:38 PM   #130
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Quake 4 Crouch Sliding (Addition to strafe jumping)
Titanfall Wall Running
Tribes Vengeance had a Grapple hook

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Old 06-26-2014, 11:42 PM   #131
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Scout double jump in TF2
Medic quickfix assist jump in TF2
Recon dashjump in Neotokyo
Skrull movement on walls and ceilings in Natural selection
Flying alien and jetpack in Natural Selection.
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Old 06-27-2014, 12:45 AM   #132
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A game even more revolved around air control and flying with airshots (even way moreso than FF) would be cool. Maybe a blend between Tribes's jetpack and TFC concs.

As for look, I'm super fond of styled low poly models with use of good lighting. If done right, the art makes the game look timeless.

1


Low poly with pixel textures are also awesome


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Old 06-27-2014, 01:43 AM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XPelargos View Post
To address Aftershock's point about an intuitive movement system, I'm trying to think of games that have movement that is not Bunnyhop based.

Tribes: Skiing and Jetpacks
Warsow: Wall Jumping (In addition to BHop)

Beyond that, my mind is blanking.

Any thoughts?
You can use ninja rope in Worms Revolution.
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Old 06-27-2014, 02:11 AM   #134
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How many more posts until we realize Spy needs a grapple hook?
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Old 06-27-2014, 03:59 AM   #135
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While ninja rope is the best tool in worms, it by no means needs to be part of the spy's arsenal. Just say no to Spy-derman.
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Old 06-27-2014, 04:31 AM   #136
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Old 06-27-2014, 05:19 AM   #137
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While ninja rope is the best tool in worms, it by no means needs to be part of the spy's arsenal. Just say no to Spy-derman.
I can't take anything seriously from you when you use the Arrow keys to move, backspace gren1, and + gren2.



But if we are focusing on movement vs fragging, then spy has no movement techniques while 2 defensive classes have movement techniques.

And I don't know how you could think a grapple is overpowered when conc nades let you do . . . . whatever the fuck you want.

Your response?
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Old 06-27-2014, 06:42 AM   #138
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Reminds me of hook mod for tfc, which was horrible all around. I'd rather the spy have some other skill/technique that helps with speed, maybe something similar to the assassins from Half Life/Black Mesa, but without the flips n shit.
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Old 06-27-2014, 09:00 AM   #139
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I'm interested what people would say is their overall favourite game movement system excluding bhop?

For me it's Mario Kart: powersliding, shroom/pad/ramp-boosting, slipstreaming, gliding (plus spin-boosting and antigravity in MK8.)
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Old 06-27-2014, 09:36 AM   #140
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Rocket jumping
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