FF_Flexibility (Images Updated: 25/02/06-21:44) - Page 13

o_own3r · 11-20-2006, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr.flexyjerkov

Just taken a glimpse at some of the other maps in development with my fav being FF_Colossus. I am now thinking to myself:

Should i add loads of various effects and details to the map which will probably make it look a little over the top for the size of the map.
Or!
Stay away from adding too much more to it and just work on the layout and game play of the level.

I need ideas!, I'm stuck for what to do next.

I feel that i may stick with something similar to the wood effect as its not something you often see in TFC but i would like to give the wood team colours or something.

I would not mind seeing a gothic theme, though I would not worry about that till you have the layout sorted and gameplay tested when the mod is released.

Gothic style is very impressive in my opinion if you have any old style churches or even cathedrals about check them out!

Alternativly A combine citadel style with high ceilings in the enterence hall with high balconies you can conc up to... *dreaming* anyway maybe that should be something I should do.

So yeah make it gothic.

o_bumgravy · 11-21-2006, 02:32 AM

The first thing I think when look at this map is that it's totally backward-portable, I know this is a remake of your HL1 map (which tbh I havent seen), but theres nothing here that couldnt be faithfully built in HL1. You need to let your imagination go off on one, try smoking drugs.

The second thing is the theme. I mean, what you have here aint perfect, but it has a much better feel to what you have now, which is very important. I know you are kind of setting yourself on the idea of keeping the wood theme, but unless you know exactly how you're going to get this to immerse the player and look believable as some kind of defendable fortification, i would drop it and look to something else. It looks like it could be blown to hell with one mirv, or just burned down entirely by one mad pyro.

Quote:

Should i add loads of various effects and details to the map which will probably make it look a little over the top for the size of the map.
Or!
Stay away from adding too much more to it and just work on the layout and game play of the level.

As to just concentrating on the gameplay aspects, I never played the original and cant comment on its strengths or weaknesses in terms of gameplay. For aesthetics, look for places where you can say "that would look cool if it had this or looked like this", then try some stuff out, but don't go throwing random props and entities in for the sake of it.

Try and experiment more with different themes, go nuts on some architecture you probably will never use and see if it inspires you, but don't be scared to hit delete just because something is adequate and only a little boring.

I dont mean to go off on one, I just find expressed criticism very handy, even if you think my opinion is worthless and I'm an idiot maybe you can take something from this.

o_nezumi · 11-21-2006, 04:38 AM

What I mean is that the style of trim at '1' looks better to me than at '2'

If you cut the ramp along the grey line and make that little edge bit be the same texture or a similar material as the grey trim along the edge I think it'll look better. You may disagree, and it is adding unnecessary brushes and polys, but whatever.

For details, try playing around more with details you've already built. You've got the blue logo under glass in that one screenshot, so maybe put around some more glass pannels or something like that.

o_theres *nothing* here · 11-21-2006, 08:45 AM

Why'd you call it Flexibility?

Just wondering. I dig the wood thing though, you never really see that sort of thing. Maybe, if you decide to keep it, you could add the sound of walking on a hardwood floor.

Edit: Glass panels? Maybe make them smashable. It's unnecessary, but I dunno. =P

o_dr.flexyjerkov · 11-21-2006, 10:16 AM

thanks for all the comments and I'm going to take them all in.

BumGravy with your comment about deleting something if it don't look right. I've already done that multiple times to the flag room as I've never been happy with it until recently.

Unsure about the wood theme, downloaded a large HL2 texture pack lastnight so ill give it a go today.

Trimming ill give a go but i find that it can be hard to do in some sections such as curves around the ramp room flooring.

Need to create a skybox too and possibly redesign the bridge as its too blocky at the moment and i don't like blocks as it looks cheap...

Anyway will post new screen shots when i made significant changes.

o_dr.flexyjerkov · 11-21-2006, 10:59 AM

Some doodles I've just done at work, going to implement them when i get home.
Doodles of what i need to do...

http://flexy.tnradio.net/ideas2.JPG

o_luminous · 11-21-2006, 01:29 PM

make the whole map cell shaded

o_dr.flexyjerkov · 11-21-2006, 03:07 PM

that would take too long, maybe if i make it for TF2 though :P

o_luminous · 11-22-2006, 07:50 AM

if i was any good at making textures id make a load for u, but ive not used photoshop in nrly a year so forgotten loads of stuff

might have a go later or something though just for the sake of it

o_dr.flexyjerkov · 11-22-2006, 08:23 AM

Been working on the piping but came to the problem that the spacing between the bumped in walls is not wide enough so if I'm to do this I'll need to change a large area of the map.

Also tried doing trimming round the edges in the ramp room but i have the issue with getting a rounded edge to look smooth as it looks all bumpy.

90 degree angle edge 90 x 90 x 90 with with a thickness of 4 and 8 sides.
Any ideas what i can do?

o_bumgravy · 11-22-2006, 08:35 AM

Im compiling and have nothing to do so id love to help, but dont quite understand the queston.

o_dr.flexyjerkov · 11-22-2006, 10:36 AM

well i'm at work now so cant do nothing. but i can explain to you this evening if your around. i'll be in #flexy quakenet.org around 8:10 tonight. Ill draw you something in paint so you can see what its doing.

Above shows what the trimming looks like when i create it using the arch tool.

o_bumgravy · 11-22-2006, 11:12 AM

so you want a curve that goes 90* on x axis, but also curves down?
like the walls in this pic: http://usera.imagecave.com/bumgravy/pic3.jpg ?

if so, triangles are your friends!

*edit sorry ill clarify:

the arch tool works on Pi so you will get vertices off the gridlines, just manipulate them back on. If you get invalids split the squares into triangles, or just split them all into triangles to be sure of valid brushes.

o_dr.flexyjerkov · 11-22-2006, 11:49 AM

similar but not curved down. It so triangles work better than squares? also when using them with a width of 2 or 4 it does not work right. could you try it for me doing an arch, 90 degrees 80 x 80 x 80 8 sides and 2 width and see if its smooth edged for you

o_bumgravy · 11-22-2006, 01:19 PM

Ill try it next time i can get hammer open... compiling still, been going 5 hours almost and still doing VIS lol. Dunno how long im gonna be up for, i been awake about 30hrs now, shift at work then stayed up all night mapping and been up all day compiling and playing geetar lol. Hopefuly ill start hallucinating soon.

o_dr.flexyjerkov · 11-22-2006, 01:28 PM

heh, i work from 8:30 till 4:30 but dont get online till later so hopefully ill see you tonight if you aint asleep.

o_dr.flexyjerkov · 11-23-2006, 07:49 AM

Ok so I've done what bumgravy said about don't be scared to delete stuff so i have now deleted some of the corner walls of the flag room as i have rounded walls of many random sizes so I've re-done them hopefully this will help me out immensely with doing trimming around the edges.

Its surprising what mistakes you can find when you re-look over all the older areas of the map. I noticed that one of the corners was just a carved triangle put in front of a flat wall to make it look curved... So I've now sorted that.
vvvv Picture to explain vvvvvvvv

Unsure whether to make the ramps up to the top floor of ramp room curved as they go down or curved steps...

You think i should give it a go? also the floor window looks kinda silly so i dunno, ill see what happens.

Anyone know where i can get some good team colored textures from? i got the FF_textures which are OK but not enough choice...

o_bumgravy · 11-23-2006, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr.flexyjerkov

Its surprising what mistakes you can find when you re-look over all the older areas of the map.

Yeah man i been looking at bits of my map i did before and been going wtf? It would be very easy to infinitely go in circles, redoing older bits of map.
[QUOTE=dr.flexyjerkov]

Unsure whether to make the ramps up to the top floor of ramp room curved as they go down or curved steps...

You think i should give it a go? also the floor window looks kinda silly so i dunno, ill see what happens.[quote]
Just save under a new name,then try out your new idea, if you dont like it you can always revert to your old save. I only ever save under a new name when i want to pull out something major and redo an area - Im currently on version 16 LOL.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr.flexyjerkov

Anyone know where i can get some good team colored textures from? i got the FF_textures which are OK but not enough choice...

FF textureS?!?!! Whered yu get them, hacking the devs?

For team colours youll notice in my map I just use neutral colours then use coloured trim - this affords you a lot more variety of textures - although Im doing AVD with blue defending, so I dont really have to find red team coloured textures.

- By the way I stayed up for like 36 hours before i crashed out at 8pm, sorry I couldnt help you out, did you get those bits sorted we talked about in posts yesterday? I take it your at work again today?

o_dr.flexyjerkov · 11-23-2006, 08:44 AM

ye still at work hence the mspaint

also i think I'm on my way to sorting out trimming by re making all the curves i think i've got them all either 128 x 128 or 256 x 256 depending on how large i want the arch.

Made the mistake lastnight of trying to use carve inside an arch and ended up crashing hammer.

Going to work on it tonight once i get home, see if i can get it looking good. I may have to work on making the ramp room look bigger, Maybe make it longer. Unsure yet though...

Will upload some new pics when i make some changes...

oh and the ff_textures, its a pack you can download somewhere on the forums. they aint the official ones tho.

o_bumgravy · 11-23-2006, 09:11 AM

They any good?

Yeah Im not a fan of the arch tool, I make all my architecture by hand, just VM and cliparoony. It means i can have nice, tidy brushwork, more control over every brush and I never have to worry about leaks. The latest pics I posted with the curvy bits on the base were all hand made.

One technique I like to do is put down a 32-sided cylinder as a guide, then manually make brushes over the top of it, Vming in the 2d views, to simulate a curve. Its not mathematically correct, but all my vertices are on grid lines and have fairly simple gradients.

11-21-2006, 10:59 AM	#246
o_dr.flexyjerkov Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Some doodles I've just done at work, going to implement them when i get home. Doodles of what i need to do... http://flexy.tnradio.net/ideas2.JPG Last edited by trepid_jesse; 02-19-2007 at 03:09 PM.

11-22-2006, 10:36 AM	#252
o_dr.flexyjerkov Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	well i'm at work now so cant do nothing. but i can explain to you this evening if your around. i'll be in #flexy quakenet.org around 8:10 tonight. Ill draw you something in paint so you can see what its doing. Above shows what the trimming looks like when i create it using the arch tool. Last edited by o_dr.flexyjerkov; 11-22-2006 at 11:04 AM.

11-23-2006, 07:49 AM	#257
o_dr.flexyjerkov Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Ok so I've done what bumgravy said about don't be scared to delete stuff so i have now deleted some of the corner walls of the flag room as i have rounded walls of many random sizes so I've re-done them hopefully this will help me out immensely with doing trimming around the edges. Its surprising what mistakes you can find when you re-look over all the older areas of the map. I noticed that one of the corners was just a carved triangle put in front of a flat wall to make it look curved... So I've now sorted that. vvvv Picture to explain vvvvvvvv Unsure whether to make the ramps up to the top floor of ramp room curved as they go down or curved steps... You think i should give it a go? also the floor window looks kinda silly so i dunno, ill see what happens. Anyone know where i can get some good team colored textures from? i got the FF_textures which are OK but not enough choice... Last edited by o_dr.flexyjerkov; 11-23-2006 at 08:02 AM.

11-21-2006, 04:38 AM	#243
o_nezumi Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Peoples Republic of Harmfull Free Radicals Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	What I mean is that the style of trim at '1' looks better to me than at '2' If you cut the ramp along the grey line and make that little edge bit be the same texture or a similar material as the grey trim along the edge I think it'll look better. You may disagree, and it is adding unnecessary brushes and polys, but whatever. For details, try playing around more with details you've already built. You've got the blue logo under glass in that one screenshot, so maybe put around some more glass pannels or something like that.

11-21-2006, 08:45 AM	#244
o_theres nothing here Join Date: May 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Why'd you call it Flexibility? Just wondering. I dig the wood thing though, you never really see that sort of thing. Maybe, if you decide to keep it, you could add the sound of walking on a hardwood floor. Edit: Glass panels? Maybe make them smashable. It's unnecessary, but I dunno. =P

11-21-2006, 10:16 AM	#245
o_dr.flexyjerkov Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	thanks for all the comments and I'm going to take them all in. BumGravy with your comment about deleting something if it don't look right. I've already done that multiple times to the flag room as I've never been happy with it until recently. Unsure about the wood theme, downloaded a large HL2 texture pack lastnight so ill give it a go today. Trimming ill give a go but i find that it can be hard to do in some sections such as curves around the ramp room flooring. Need to create a skybox too and possibly redesign the bridge as its too blocky at the moment and i don't like blocks as it looks cheap... Anyway will post new screen shots when i made significant changes.

11-21-2006, 01:29 PM	#247
o_luminous Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	make the whole map cell shaded

11-21-2006, 03:07 PM	#248
o_dr.flexyjerkov Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	that would take too long, maybe if i make it for TF2 though :P

11-22-2006, 07:50 AM	#249
o_luminous Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	if i was any good at making textures id make a load for u, but ive not used photoshop in nrly a year so forgotten loads of stuff might have a go later or something though just for the sake of it

11-22-2006, 08:23 AM	#250
o_dr.flexyjerkov Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Been working on the piping but came to the problem that the spacing between the bumped in walls is not wide enough so if I'm to do this I'll need to change a large area of the map. Also tried doing trimming round the edges in the ramp room but i have the issue with getting a rounded edge to look smooth as it looks all bumpy. 90 degree angle edge 90 x 90 x 90 with with a thickness of 4 and 8 sides. Any ideas what i can do?

11-22-2006, 08:35 AM	#251
o_bumgravy Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Im compiling and have nothing to do so id love to help, but dont quite understand the queston.

11-22-2006, 11:12 AM	#253
o_bumgravy Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	so you want a curve that goes 90* on x axis, but also curves down? like the walls in this pic: http://usera.imagecave.com/bumgravy/pic3.jpg ? if so, triangles are your friends! *edit sorry ill clarify: the arch tool works on Pi so you will get vertices off the gridlines, just manipulate them back on. If you get invalids split the squares into triangles, or just split them all into triangles to be sure of valid brushes.

11-22-2006, 11:49 AM	#254
o_dr.flexyjerkov Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	similar but not curved down. It so triangles work better than squares? also when using them with a width of 2 or 4 it does not work right. could you try it for me doing an arch, 90 degrees 80 x 80 x 80 8 sides and 2 width and see if its smooth edged for you

11-22-2006, 01:19 PM	#255
o_bumgravy Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Ill try it next time i can get hammer open... compiling still, been going 5 hours almost and still doing VIS lol. Dunno how long im gonna be up for, i been awake about 30hrs now, shift at work then stayed up all night mapping and been up all day compiling and playing geetar lol. Hopefuly ill start hallucinating soon.

11-22-2006, 01:28 PM	#256
o_dr.flexyjerkov Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	heh, i work from 8:30 till 4:30 but dont get online till later so hopefully ill see you tonight if you aint asleep.

11-23-2006, 08:44 AM	#259
o_dr.flexyjerkov Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	ye still at work hence the mspaint also i think I'm on my way to sorting out trimming by re making all the curves i think i've got them all either 128 x 128 or 256 x 256 depending on how large i want the arch. Made the mistake lastnight of trying to use carve inside an arch and ended up crashing hammer. Going to work on it tonight once i get home, see if i can get it looking good. I may have to work on making the ramp room look bigger, Maybe make it longer. Unsure yet though... Will upload some new pics when i make some changes... oh and the ff_textures, its a pack you can download somewhere on the forums. they aint the official ones tho.

11-23-2006, 09:11 AM	#260
o_bumgravy Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	They any good? Yeah Im not a fan of the arch tool, I make all my architecture by hand, just VM and cliparoony. It means i can have nice, tidy brushwork, more control over every brush and I never have to worry about leaks. The latest pics I posted with the curvy bits on the base were all hand made. One technique I like to do is put down a 32-sided cylinder as a guide, then manually make brushes over the top of it, Vming in the 2d views, to simulate a curve. Its not mathematically correct, but all my vertices are on grid lines and have fairly simple gradients.

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