TF2: Heretical and blasphemous of the REAL thing

[Credge]

Because they are different games? That seems like a good enough reason to me.

If they were the same game then there wouldn't be any reason to play a different game. What you've stated is kind of like saying "Why would I play TF2 when I have WoW?"

[Rutabeggar]

Originally Posted by Credge

Because they are different games? That seems like a good enough reason to me.

If they were the same game then there wouldn't be any reason to play a different game. What you've stated is kind of like saying "Why would I play TF2 when I have WoW?"

Different games they are, but what exactly is so attractive in FF to the average PC FPS gamer? What is it that sets us apart? I mean sure, there are really great things in this mod, but NO ONE KNOWS because all we have to spread the word is word of mouth. The game has been out since...September? Maybe it's October? Point is, it has been half a year. We are going on patch 2.1 without a finished 2fort, no training mode, and probably more skill maps than regular maps, oh and don't forget marketing. I've been sticking out this whole "funk" that FF has fallen in to just like everyone else. I'd love to do more, if there was a damn donate button sitting on the site, i'd be more than happy to contribute an amount a month if it meant that I'd see an add on a gaming website, but alas, it has been 7-8 months and we have...well...what do we have?

[Credge]

Originally Posted by Rutabeggar

Different games they are, but what exactly is so attractive in FF to the average PC FPS gamer?

Fast gameplay. Most FPS have slower gameplay. Look at the top 3 FPS out there currently and compare them with the speed of FF.

CoD4 has slow gameplay with fewer players. It becomes spam with lots of players.

TF2 has slow gameplay regardless of the players.

Halo 3 (not PC) has incredibly slow gameplay regardless of the players.

FF has much more speed in just a 1v1.

[Rutabeggar]

Originally Posted by Credge

Fast gameplay. Most FPS have slower gameplay. Look at the top 3 FPS out there currently and compare them with the speed of FF.

CoD4 has slow gameplay with fewer players. It becomes spam with lots of players.

TF2 has slow gameplay regardless of the players.

Halo 3 (not PC) has incredibly slow gameplay regardless of the players.

FF has much more speed in just a 1v1.

CoD4, 2008 Game of the Year

TF2, Multiplayer Game of the Year, GameSpy

Halo 3, Final installment of one of the most popular gaming trilogies in history.

All things that we do not have. All games that have immense amounts of marketing. All games we could take something from. We can't make commercials, we can't retail our mod. But we can market, and I have yet to understand why we haven't. Word of mouth won't last long.

Horray, we have fast game play, and I think you showed our greatest flaw. A lot of speed in 1v1. New people have NO IDEA how to keep up with a full pub of FF. None. They might get the gist of it, but it's very intimidating. I let my friend play FF for the first time, he played for an hour, said he had no idea what was going on for the first 30 minutes, and finally just went engy because it was the safest and easiest for him to play. He hasn't touched it since. My friend is the above average gamer, loves FPS, plays TF2 everyday, and has stated that there isn't another game out there that can offer the overall experience TF2 can. And I agree. Is his opinion biased? Yes. So is the crowd we are trying to tap in to. Unless FF can offer something of value to get the average gamer to leave TF2 to play FF, this mod will stay this way. And I hate to say that because I love this mod, but it's the truth.

[Sh4x]

I completely agree with Rutabeggar...

The dev team wanted to remake TFC with bug fixes and minor improvements on the source engine and they truely succeeded imo. But that doesn't make the game any more inclined to attract a large player base in todays FPS market.

TFC didn't die just because the graphics weren't up to date anymore, it died because the gameplay got old and better games with better gameplay came out. And when I say better, I mean more attractive to the average gamer.

This game is never going to get popular as it is, not even with million dollars publicity campains.

[Circuitous]

Originally Posted by Rutabeggar

We are going on patch 2.1 without a finished 2fort, no training mode, and probably more skill maps than regular maps, oh and don't forget marketing.

No kidding. Training mode and 2fort are at least in the works. They'll be released with 2.1 - they'll likely be the determining factors behind its timing. Not that 2fort has any bearing on a new player's impression of the game - they won't know what 2fort is.

Training mode, though...

Originally Posted by Rutabeggar

I've been sticking out this whole "funk" that FF has fallen in to just like everyone else. I'd love to do more, if there was a damn donate button sitting on the site, i'd be more than happy to contribute an amount a month if it meant that I'd see an add on a gaming website

Money won't get anything done faster, and I doubt we can bribe our way onto any gaming sites, nor should we.

Originally Posted by Rutabeggar

but alas, it has been 7-8 months and we have...well...what do we have?

A great game with solid core gameplay and a massive quantity of annoying twats to back it up with.

[Rutabeggar]

Originally Posted by Circuitous

No kidding. Training mode and 2fort are at least in the works. They'll be released with 2.1 - they'll likely be the determining factors behind its timing. Not that 2fort has any bearing on a new player's impression of the game - they won't know what 2fort is.

Training mode, though...



Money won't get anything done faster, and I doubt we can bribe our way onto any gaming sites, nor should we.



A great game with solid core gameplay and a massive quantity of annoying twats to back it up with.

But no one has shown me anything that could appeal to the average PC gamer...which is all the audience we can really tap in to now. The TFC community would have switched over if they wanted to by now, as well as people who have gotten bored with TF2. There is really great gameplay...to people who know what's going on. Patch 2.1 is so late in the game for a training mode, lack of maps we can probably live with...but as stated, we're on 2.1 and a training mode is still being "worked on". I understand that there is a lack of resources and people...but that should have been a primary concern...not something like the jump pad and floating pyros...you can't put things on the other side of the canyon without building a bridge to get there.

[Circuitous]

Originally Posted by Rutabeggar

But no one has shown me anything that could appeal to the average PC gamer...which is all the audience we can really tap in to now.

Congratulations, you got my point.

Carry on.

[Ihmhi]

Originally Posted by greenday5494

hey! you're the one who created the bitch about updates thread!

That thread was more of a blessing than anything else. It kept all of the countless whining threads about when the game will come out, when screenies will come out, etc. etc. in one place.

God Save The FrenchToast.

[reaper18]

Originally Posted by Ihmhi

That thread was more of a blessing than anything else. It kept all of the countless whining threads about when the game will come out, when screenies will come out, etc. etc. in one place.

God Save The FrenchToast.

*raises glass*
amen

[SmellyCat]

Aye, he might not've done much for us, but the BAUT thread was excellent.

Hear, hear!

[Klute]

Not having a few servers running 2fort imo, is the most damaging for new players and a solid player base. That map, say and think what you will, was the sucess of TFC for new players and the longevity of the game. Log on now and look whats available server wise? Then imagine yourself doing so for the first time. The majority of them are running map packs, which a n00b has no idea to dl let alone install.
Not one sever running 2fort stating "best for new players" or "n00bs haven" and helpers in it playing.
2fort is simple, fast paced and easy to get a hang of things we all take for granted.
What ever you do, make the map as less hardware demanding as it can and run a 2fort 24/7. Once they get that, some, just like TFC will play it all the time, but thats a good thing as others will join and so the process of a good player begins and he will move on to other servers and maps.

[Credge]

Originally Posted by Rutabeggar

Horray, we have fast game play, and I think you showed our greatest flaw.

Speed is what makes FF fun. If it were slow it would be boring. It's one of the major reasons I can't stand TF2. It's also one of the major reasons I can't stand TFC anymore. It's all so slow.

Every time I've played TF2 someone has always complained about how slow the game is.

Everyone on the planet acknowledges that Halo is slow.

The only reason CoD4 seems to be fast is because most people play on servers with 50 people.

We have something that is incredibly unique in todays FPS market. Almost every single FPS out there now is incredibly slow. Marketing means piss all to how much a game is played. Look at UT3. All marketing does is make a product known. If people aren't interested in it, it won't be bought.

Since people are obviously interested in a fortress style game, they will obviously be, at the very least, interested in this.

There are three things that makes people turn away from this game:

1. The community. It sucks. Pubs are filled with griefers, lamers, and spam. That's not a good environment to learn a game in.

2. The learning curve. A high learning curve means most people won't have the patience to play. This leads to #3.

3. No tutorial. Tutorials are almost required for introducing players into any game that has a high learning curve. TF2 is simple enough to not have one. There are no advanced moving techniques, no tactical usage of weaponry, etc. It's just running and gunning. A lot of people are tiring of this, and TF2 server numbers show this.

Lots of people know about the game but the community has turned them away from it.

[greenday5494]

i have a question first of all. Why are we still including ff_fatties when it's never going to be finished and it's just a black and purple map? And, for ALL future Full installs, i think we should include the Community Map Pack as a highly recommended option!

[Rutabeggar]

Originally Posted by Credge

Speed is what makes FF fun. If it were slow it would be boring. It's one of the major reasons I can't stand TF2. It's also one of the major reasons I can't stand TFC anymore. It's all so slow.

Every time I've played TF2 someone has always complained about how slow the game is.

Everyone on the planet acknowledges that Halo is slow.

The only reason CoD4 seems to be fast is because most people play on servers with 50 people.

We have something that is incredibly unique in todays FPS market. Almost every single FPS out there now is incredibly slow. Marketing means piss all to how much a game is played. Look at UT3. All marketing does is make a product known. If people aren't interested in it, it won't be bought.

Since people are obviously interested in a fortress style game, they will obviously be, at the very least, interested in this.

There are three things that makes people turn away from this game:

1. The community. It sucks. Pubs are filled with griefers, lamers, and spam. That's not a good environment to learn a game in.

2. The learning curve. A high learning curve means most people won't have the patience to play. This leads to #3.

3. No tutorial. Tutorials are almost required for introducing players into any game that has a high learning curve. TF2 is simple enough to not have one. There are no advanced moving techniques, no tactical usage of weaponry, etc. It's just running and gunning. A lot of people are tiring of this, and TF2 server numbers show this.

Lots of people know about the game but the community has turned them away from it.

But this late in the game, how is changing any one of those things going to attract the average PC gamer. I think you misunderstand me. I know the fast game play of FF is what makes it fun.....for us. New people can't keep up, which is your #2 reason, the learning curve is so steep, why would the average person want to continue playing?

If the TF2 server numbers are showing disinterest, it must be pretty minute and the people leaving must lack the interest in Fortress games if we're getting little to no love from the players bored with TF2. My simple point that I was trying to make about 89 posts ago was that it is going to be hard to save this game, and the devs are going to be hard pressed to do so. 2.1 needs to include as many things as possible and not come out in late may/mid-june.

The community would be much better off without the "elitists". If you think you're beneficial by scaring off a newbie player base, you're terribly wrong. I'd love to see the community take new people in and offer to teach them things, but the majority of experienced players just belittle people and leave a bad taste in their mouths.

We're after the average gamer...and we can't attract them without simple things for them to build on...There's only so much non-devs can do.

[s0undch4s3r]

the nice thing about TF2 over all other TF games is that the game play stay's the same with everybody....no bunny hopping bullshit. If bunny hopping was implemented into TF2 then the game would flop and everybody would either bitch and want their money back or go out and find a girlfriend and pretend the internet never existed.

EDIT:....sorry for being an ass. Many people are put off by certain things in a game. BHOP is one of them in TF games.

[SmellyCat]

Sounds like a sweeping go at everyone on these forums? If everyone's an elitist because we like fast games with lots of skills to master at a top level and crazy-intense publics (I'm thinking of a time I played epicenter here, it turned into a chaotic ~7O v 7D - it was amazing) then I guess yes, everyone here is an elitist because we're playing the game(s) we enjoy playing.

Not everyone here is out to belitte/discourage/insult new players to keep them away from our "oh so precious game". However, as a name I recognise, I wonder if I've just misinterpreted what you're saying...?


Wait, no, I really cannot find another angle on it.

[Desyphur]

No, Sound here just attacked all of us. You're right. [snip]

Flame-free forum.

[Rutabeggar]

At least the conversation was civil...it's people like Sound that's destroying the FF community...

[myersjr]

Originally Posted by Klute

Not having a few servers running 2fort imo, is the most damaging for new players and a solid player base. That map, say and think what you will, was the sucess of TFC for new players and the longevity of the game. Log on now and look whats available server wise? Then imagine yourself doing so for the first time. The majority of them are running map packs, which a n00b has no idea to dl let alone install.
Not one sever running 2fort stating "best for new players" or "n00bs haven" and helpers in it playing.
2fort is simple, fast paced and easy to get a hang of things we all take for granted.
What ever you do, make the map as less hardware demanding as it can be and run a 2fort 24/7. Once they get that, some, just like TFC will play it all the time, but thats a good thing as others will join and so the process of a good player begins and he will move on to other servers and maps.

Sounds like words of wizdom to me..