05-22-2008, 07:44 PM | #61 |
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Actually sabotage might not last long, either.
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05-22-2008, 07:46 PM | #62 | |
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05-22-2008, 07:53 PM | #63 |
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Last edited by tu!; 05-22-2008 at 08:00 PM. |
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05-22-2008, 08:10 PM | #64 | |
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As a spy you don't control where the sg is located, then it is his responsibility to locate said sg and sneak into position to sabo it. Avoiding weary engies and sollies on their toes. The spy has to sit there for 5 seconds facing the sg, making him REALLY conspicuous, allowing more chances to be caught. Now the spy has to trigger the sabo at the right time. Triggering it immediately does not always yield best results. Communicating with his teammates goes along way (another skill). Telling his teammates that the sg IS sabo'ed and not to destroy it, rather tell him when they're incoming so he can trigger it at a better time. Sometimes the spy can sabo an sg, and get the flag out. Killing the engy before trying to sabo the sg doesn't always work either. If the engy is aware he'll det the sg in place and kill you in the process. So you have to watch out for that. If the spy dies before he triggers it all is lost, so after he's got it sabo'ed he stll has to stay alive long enough for it to be usefull. There's skill involved in getting more than 1 sg at a time. Basically if the spy get's an sg sabotaged he's beat the defense that run, and deserves his reward. Medic's could infect, die, die again, die again, and still have his original infection spreading due to the stupidity of his team. But it's not just stupidity, sometimes you're just walking around a corner and you bump. There's no skill in finding your targets. Back in TFC a medic would conc over to the enemy battlements and his first target would usually be the snipers, as offense would bump into those cockblocking whores all the time. Once they're infected they drop down or run to upper spawn, just chain infecting everyone he could. You would rarely see a medic dedicated to this run down to the basement since basement D is usually more focused and organized, they bump into eachother less and are more aware. The only real infecting in the basement was done by true offense who were trying to make a gap on the 1 or two players down there. No the medic dedicated to the infection spreading runs around high traffic areas. They don't pick their targets, 5 defenders in one room, demo at the back of it, he's not going to try and run through the first 4 to get the prime target, he's going to just randomly try and infect as many as he can before he dies. This has been one of the worst comparisons i've ever read, spy sabotaging sg's compared to infection spread, rofl. *Edit* Oh! and once a spy does it once or twice, the defense is on their toes even more, making it even harder. A medic can repeatedly run in to infect with very very minimal difficulty, yet with spreading the damage can be exponential compared to an sg. 1 infect could equate to infinite kills theoretically being able to kill the same guy more than twice. |
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05-22-2008, 08:31 PM | #65 | |
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05-22-2008, 08:36 PM | #66 | |||||
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You're providing a lot of anecdotal evidence. I'm in no way suggesting sabotaging doesn't take a lot of skill, I'm saying I think your impression of there being no skill involved with the medic is founded on a false understanding of the tactic. Quote:
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05-22-2008, 09:02 PM | #67 | |
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It basically makes newb Engineers worse than having no teammate at all, and that shouldn't happen.
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05-22-2008, 09:20 PM | #68 | ||
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05-22-2008, 09:35 PM | #69 | |||||
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05-22-2008, 09:39 PM | #70 |
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i try not to knee jerk too much here, but if sabotage is removed, this game is pretty much dead to me.
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05-22-2008, 09:41 PM | #71 | |
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Infecting takes as much skill as hitting an enemy with a crowbar. |
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05-22-2008, 09:46 PM | #72 | |
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As a matter of fact, i would be curious to see how many would be interested in trying to have it (infection spreading) put back in.. Someone in an earlier post, reacted to my comment about infectionspreading and its relation to pubs and clanners. I would be willing to bet you that the lines between those who wanted it and those who dont, would be split along those lines. I dont know for sure mind you but i have a suspicion they would be..I dont want to be an argumentative ass, but i think if we have chance to bring some people back into the FF fold, this might be just a small little thing that would help? Something i would be willing to holler for..Notice that i said small because i know that infection spreading wouldnt be a huge people bringer..if i thought that, id have to have my head examined..but i do believe there are folks that do miss that about TFC and would like to see it in FF again..if indeed it was in there at one point. Last edited by myersjr; 05-22-2008 at 09:53 PM. |
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05-22-2008, 10:30 PM | #73 | |
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05-22-2008, 11:11 PM | #74 | |
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Regardless to say that you counter an awp with an awp would really depend on the map as thats not always the case. In other words... quit crying about the AWP. Last edited by GoatMan; 05-22-2008 at 11:16 PM. |
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05-22-2008, 11:27 PM | #75 |
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Hey guys, I have aids. Lets make a 4 page discussion about it.
Do it. |
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05-23-2008, 12:33 AM | #76 |
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Hammock: The point here being is that even if sabotaging sg's require more skill than infecting, it's the same principle: A teammate with zero skill can hurt the team which in turn can make the dynamics of the game more interesting.
myersjr: I doubt the devs like being told what their job is, this is a volunteer thing afterall. Circuitous: I still don't understand why people seem to be opposed to having things like this as a server side option, to me that seems like a win-win scenario. Then people who want it can have it, and those that don't, won't have to AND you won't have to see people complaining on the forums like this over making decisions on controversial gameplay elements. I'm curious what other people's opinions are, but for me personally I like almost every extra option and nuance the game has. I've liked almost every new option that's been added, and have been rather negative towards every option taken away. Here's a quick list: Good stuff: -Cloaking -sg sabotage -pyro damage combos -jump pads (overall cool, though AvD needs help as a result) -pyro hovering (see above) -a 1.1s timer on blue pipes -removing the overheating limitation on hwguy -throwable medkits Not good stuff -caltrops removal (kind of indifferent, but thought it was kind of nice to have) -removing option for 2.5s timer on blue pipes -removing infection spreading -removing hwguy's effective range I guess I'm in the minority, but I've never been "oh thank god they got rid of that" every time an option gets removed from FF. Unless it's a total gameplay breaker, I see more options only as a good thing, it's exactly what adds depth to a game like this as opposed to being a clone of countless other mods. |
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05-23-2008, 12:40 AM | #77 |
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With regards to making something a server-side option:
There are like, what, five active servers? I can't imagine anyone going "Yes, I want idiots and griefers to be able to spread infections to their teammates on my server," and even if they did, it serves only to confuse new players and further divide the community. Infection spreading sucked and was removed. We seriously don't need to carry this on.
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05-23-2008, 04:23 AM | #78 | |
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EDIT: darn...thread was closed
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