Information about FF bunnyhopping ?

[o_arqentus]

Originally Posted by AfterShock

If you played TFC now, you would realise that playing against offense that try to use their movement skill vs your DM skill is actually the most fun way to play. The biggest problem/annoyance for defense players is actually the opposite: spamming grenades without any movement/bhop skill at all.

The whole fun of TFC is that you can use movement skill to achieve goals, not just fighting skill.

Whats more fun as demoman?
1. Laying a pipetrap and trying to det just when the enemy comes onto it
2. Laying a pipetrap then having an enemy throw 2 grenades on you.
*knip*

I think you are mixing BH for speed, with normal jumping & running.

Most of the examples here seem to talk about a static defence. People who do not move from one spot, and get killed because of nade spamming.

No offence, but do you think people before the BH speed increase where stupid? A defender that stays fixed/static on one spot is a dead man. This is something everybody knew before BH for speed increase was widely used.

Bunny Hopping is mostly referred to the misuse of the physic to increase the speed to 200% of normal. Because of this increase in speed, it littler creates the effect of having twice the amount of attackers on the defence then before.

Also, Offence has always been movement based, Defence has also been movement based. Your example uses static defenders ( only stupid noobs did that ). Nade spamming, please ... Somebody who is that stupid to try nade spamming, is a dead offence player. You can close the gab of a nade spammer with minimum damage before he has the chance to prime his second nade.

Now, i see some people saying. No, no, its not Unreal Tournament. No no, its no fun, because without BH200, people in the defence will get bored. Really? In a normal none BH200 game, the defence has a bit of spare time ( mostly 5 to 10 sec max unless you have a very slow opponent ), and that time is used to resupply, communicate with other defenders ( who may be under attack ), to reload and get ready for the next wave, alter tactics. With BH200, the wave is none stop.

Reloading is not a issue anymore, because its a DM game. You live, Your opponent dies. Next opponent is already there, again, you live, or you die ( but at that point, you a: have less ammo, b: have less health ). You die, spawn, again, back. Tactics go out of the door because its a DM game, period. Anybody claiming they have free time with BH200, is kidding themselves. O and don't worry, i retested the TFC 170% cap yesterday. Like i said, TFC has become UT. The same as when i played for a stretch a few year or 2 ago ago.

Defence in the past, only used jumping to minimise damage or harder to hit. We mostly used something called Stealth between waves to surprise the attackers ( what i noticed yesterday was missing on every server ). People jumping around like monkey's sure, making all that noise ... Very good defenders O_o. Daim, the level has dropped sinds the old days...

Somebody made a reference that BH200 creates surprises because you are not on the same spot as before? Heuuu, that tactic of not staying static on the same spot, has nothing to do with BH200. Normal running has the same effect. But, like i said before, it created more pressure on the defence players because of the increased game speed resulting from the BH170 ( need to refer to 170 in fact, sinds that was the speed limit yesterday ).

Originally Posted by Paft Dunk

Bunny-hopping is a skill which a player takes advantage of air control/gravity.(Which we all know)
Nothing wrong with that. Same goes for Rocket jumping or Conc jumping and any other form of none intended advantage.

Paft Dunk, i said it before ( do people actually read anymore? ). BH Speed increase is whats called a freebie. RJ, ConcJ are both speed increase ability's that require resources ( and increase your vurability ).

The problem with the BH Speed Increase, is that Offence who need to travel longer distances then Defence, get the most "use" out of it, putting defence under a lot more pressure becouse the waves are none stop. It increases the speed of the game, and i said it a dozen times before, it creates a Unreal Tournament Dead Match where tactics go out of the door. And none stop jumping like a monkey, fast reflexes win the day. You know what the current game play reminds me off? The Soviets there way of winning wars. None stop cannon fodder. Where before BH, attackers needed to link up to suppress the more heavily armed defender while one slipped passed, now its just one after another suicide run, taking a chunk out of the defender.

Now, i also noticed some people seem to think the term Bunny Hopping is the same as Jumping when in a fight. Wrong. BH is a reference used to do long stretches of distance using this tactic ( making you look like ... yes, bunny's ). Jumping during fight is used to minimise rocket impacts ( from the people who actually bother to shoot at the feet regio *lol* ), nade damage, and making yourself a harder target. Its NOT used for long periods of time.

Pfew ... Take it how you like it. I'm not going to wast my time explaining it again. I wonder why i even bothered, sinds most of the people who are left in the TFC world hardly remember the pre-BH times, and have switched to BH as a lifestyle. And i'm sorry to say, TFC of today is just a re-branded UT, fit for dex monkey's. Ho well ...

[o_paft]

Just to clarify , I'm not a new comer to tfc. I've stuck with tfc for many years. No interest in any other games.

So i understand all about bunny-hopping and the concept of the game.
Just in case i sound as though i don't have a clue.

[o_mescalito]

Paft, he just left, then returned and now he doesn't recognise his own hood. What you gonna tell him?

[o_ekim]

Originally Posted by Arqentus

Bunny Hopping is mostly referred to the misuse of the physic to increase the speed to 200% of normal.

It won't be a misuse in FF because it will be intentionally coded into the mod.

Originally Posted by Arqentus

Because of this increase in speed, it littler creates the effect of having twice the amount of attackers on the defence then before.

Yes bunnyhopping increases the speed of the game. The speed wasn't perfect before so moot point.

Originally Posted by Arqentus

Also, Offence has always been movement based, Defence has also been movement based.

So both can gain from bunnyhopping.

Originally Posted by Arqentus

Now, i see some people saying. No, no, its not Unreal Tournament. No no, its no fun, because without BH200, people in the defence will get bored. Really? In a normal none BH200 game, the defence has a bit of spare time ( mostly 5 to 10 sec max unless you have a very slow opponent ), and that time is used to resupply, communicate with other defenders ( who may be under attack ), to reload and get ready for the next wave, alter tactics. With BH200, the wave is none stop.

Again, you point out that bunnyhopping increases the speed of the game. This is not news.

Originally Posted by Arqentus

Reloading is not a issue anymore, because its a DM game. You live, Your opponent dies. Next opponent is already there, again, you live, or you die ( but at that point, you a: have less ammo, b: have less health ). You die, spawn, again, back. Tactics go out of the door because its a DM game, period. Anybody claiming they have free time with BH200, is kidding themselves.

Wrong.

Originally Posted by Arqentus

O and don't worry, i retested the TFC 170% cap yesterday. Like i said, TFC has become UT. The same as when i played for a stretch a few year or 2 ago ago.

So you came back to TFC after two years, having already decided you hate bunnyhopping and the game is too fast for you now. Is that supposed to be surprising?

Originally Posted by Arqentus

Somebody made a reference that BH200 creates surprises because you are not on the same spot as before? Heuuu, that tactic of not staying static on the same spot, has nothing to do with BH200. Normal running has the same effect. But, like i said before, it created more pressure on the defence players because of the increased game speed resulting from the BH170

Again, you're telling us something we know already : bunnyhopping increases the speed of the game.

Originally Posted by Arqentus

Paft Dunk, i said it before ( do people actually read anymore? ). BH Speed increase is whats called a freebie. RJ, ConcJ are both speed increase ability's that require resources ( and increase your vurability ).

So what? Should everything in the game be a limited resource? Strafing? Jumping? Moving the mouse? Maybe you should only be able to use voicecomms for 5 seconds before needing to recharge? Stupid point.

Originally Posted by Arqentus

The problem with the BH Speed Increase, is that Offence who need to travel longer distances then Defence, get the most "use" out of it, putting defence under a lot more pressure becouse the waves are none stop. It increases the speed of the game, and i said it a dozen times before, it creates a Unreal Tournament Dead Match where tactics go out of the door.

Bunnyhop increase the speed of the game. Yeah, we got it. Does it completely eliminate tactical play? No. Anyone who had played TFC competitivley in the last three years could tell you that.

Originally Posted by Arqentus

And none stop jumping like a monkey, fast reflexes win the day. You know what the current game play reminds me off? The Soviets there way of winning wars. None stop cannon fodder. Where before BH, attackers needed to link up to suppress the more heavily armed defender while one slipped passed, now its just one after another suicide run, taking a chunk out of the defender.

Yeah well, people who don't like bunnyhop are nazis. TFC offence is more about moving flags than killing things but maybe that's beyond you with your fascist mindset.

Originally Posted by Arqentus

Pfew ... Take it how you like it. I'm not going to wast my time explaining it again. I wonder why i even bothered, sinds most of the people who are left in the TFC world hardly remember the pre-BH times, and have switched to BH as a lifestyle.

Wow I wonder why that could be? Hint : it's not because bunnyhopping is a bad thing.

Originally Posted by Arqentus

And i'm sorry to say, TFC of today is just a re-branded UT, fit for dex monkey's. Ho well ...

Fortress mods have always been fast. If you want to play a slow game play something else. Really.

[o_rebo]

Arqentus, i dont think anything will make you believe bunnyhopping adds to the game. I think it does but you are entitled to your opinion.

Noone will force you to bunnyhop in FF, if you dont want to thats fine. Im sure you can still get fun out of the mod.

[Jiggles]

It's really pretty moot to argue so vociferously against bhop. It will be in FF, period.

I can respect that you don't like bhop - you're not alone. It does speed up the game, but saying that there will be double the number of attackers is rather hyperbolic: in TFC, maintaining a perfect 170% bhop is very tough. If every map were a flat plane, you would be closer to correct, but all sorts of obstructions (architecture, players, grenades, etc) limit bhopping. Making a mistake while bhopping can actually slow you down, compared to running or strafe jumping.

Overall, of course, bhopping does speed up the game, that's clear. It doesn't throw tactics out the window. A team who just charges in bhopping like mad will get obliterated by a coordinated D. You will have less time to hit a bhopper, but his movement is more predictable (he generally has to move a certain way to maintain his bhop). Also, with footsteps off, bhopping alerts the defender to your arrival, whereas simply running, while slower, generally does not.

I'm not sure how you feel that bhopping has made TFC more of a DM game - if anything, it has put more emphasis on movement rather than DMing. Since a player can move faster, he will more often attempt to get by the defender w/o fighting.

[o_arsenalfc]

Originally Posted by AfterShock

If you played TFC now, you would realise that playing against offense that try to use their movement skill vs your DM skill is actually the most fun way to play. The biggest problem/annoyance for defense players is actually the opposite: spamming grenades without any movement/bhop skill at all.

The whole fun of TFC is that you can use movement skill to achieve goals, not just fighting skill.

Whats more fun as demoman?
1. Laying a pipetrap and trying to det just when the enemy comes onto it
2. Laying a pipetrap then having an enemy throw 2 grenades on you.

Whats more fun as soldier?
1. Trying to predict where an enemy player is moving and shooting him - giving you free control of your own actions
2. Standing in a defensive position and having grenades randomly come round the corner until you are dead.

Whats more fun as HWGuy?
1. Trying to track people moving through the air with concs and air control
2. Trying to fire at someone hiding behind a wall, but you cant move since you are firing, so you get hit by grenades over and over...

ETC. I could describe the same for other classes - fighting against movement based offense is 10000000000x more fun than fighting against spam based offense.

BTW, they are also increasing rocket speed to compensate for the faster play.

offense doesn't have any obligation to make it 'fun' to defend against. it would be a foolish offense that didn't dm the demo and tried only to juke him over and over. i know as a d soldier i would rather face a medic or scout that is largely based on movement and concs, but that's because it makes it easier for me as my aim is good. All the examples you have given are true because as a d player it is fun in those situations, but let's be honest if you're dead from so called "spam" you're not going to be able to defend your pos and thus let other offy though.

[Circuitous]

So if what AfterShock is saying is true, the only two options are bunnyhopping/concjumping offense and spam offense? Why can't I believe that?

[o_player]

Arqentus, bhop is good, Drippy's 2Fort No Bhop is bad.

There really isn't much else I can say because everyone else has said it, plus there seems to be no reasoning with you at all.

[o_nezumi]

Lol, soviets.

I think arqentus WAS Tiki.

[o_ghost]

That's good because it will be in FF.