ff_congestus - 90% complete - Page 3

o_demasu · 07-10-2005, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadow34721

Demasu:
fov 110

Ok, keep up the good work.

o_imbrifer · 07-10-2005, 03:31 AM

Looks great. Here are my thoughts:
On the top screenshot (battlements) the grate with the red behind it looks a little artificial. Maybe add a border around the grate?
On the second screenshot, the part in the middle where the concrete cradles the rock - the wall looks cut off. Maybe add a border there, or do some texture manipulation to make it look designed to be that way?
In the third shot I love the way the floor curves and has the border texture. Maybe spunk up the ceiling? It looks alright and depending on the rest of the map there might be a place for a flat ceiling. The texture on the columns may need to be addressed - is the one on the left curved? It looks like a block from the angle of the screenie, and in my opinion it is sort of awkward with the texture it has next to the floor texture. Again, as mentioned in my response to the first screenshot, the grate with red light behind it looks a bit cut off, or artificial or what have you.
On the following shot (and I must say you did an AMAZING job there) the border around the fence looks a bit too dark.
On the second to last shot, I think the wall object behind the fence looks odd (though the broken tiles and the ground look excellent). Maybe make displacements and superimpose them on parts if it is supposed to be 'rubble', or make broken pipes jutting out, or make the broad wall facing the camera a displacement surface with the current texture blended with a sort of rubble texture, and make inward dents with alpha masked rubble?

Again, you are doing an amazing job, and though my criticism is picky, I wouldn't waste the time if I didn't know this was going to be a spactacular map. Keep up the great work!

o_shadow34721 · 07-10-2005, 04:03 AM

In reply to imbrifer's questions...
In the third picture the right pillar is curved. The reason for this was that I was forced to scale back the walkways by about 16-24 units because the player wasn't able to walk under it (even though you easily can in tfc, weird...) Since I did not wish to have greatly varying width on the walkway, I reduced that pillar by curving. The texture on it has always bugged me tbh, however the batts/yard hasn't been fully developed at the moment and is soon to get some additional detail work. The one on the left is not curved, but has been left that way to complement the quadrilateral base below it. Together, they retain the same texturing scheme as is seen outside of the base. I do not plan to change the ceiling since preserving gameplay is top priority for me on this particular map.

You note on the fourth picture that the black trim seems out of place, but I assure you it is merely a relic of previous versions of the map and will eventually be dealt with accordingly. On the sixth picture, the odd-looking wall is there to hide a transition from displacements to 3dskybox tbh. I would've liked to make a larger and smoother transition for this area, however at one point rendering and fps come into play, and as we all know congestus is a very conc-heavy map. A large fps drop when entering the flagroom would be detrimental to gameplay to say the least. (for a while I was averaging 20 fps in there until I learned about my new buddy, optimization. I now maintain a solid 80 fps on a radeon 9600) Sometimes looks have to be sacrificed to achieve better gameplay and performance. I only wish I knew more about it when I started this map, perhaps I wouldn't still be cleaning up my old messes :D although such things are intrinsic to a first map I suppose.

At some upcoming time I'll have to create a short video showcasing some aspects of the map.

o_imbrifer · 07-10-2005, 04:35 AM

Sounds delicious, and thanks for the quick reply!

I know what you mean about optimization - when I flipped and compiled the map I've been working on, the compile time went from 2 to 21 hours, all the brush-based entities were turned into world brushes, and the framerate dropped to the floor. Wish I constructed the level with the optimization I now know in mind. Anyway, here's a link someone on these forums posted that covers just about all I've been able to find on optimization: http://www.student.kun.nl/rvanhoorn/...n.htm#chapter5 and I'll go back to cleaning my map...

Anyway, rock on.

o_weetbix · 07-10-2005, 05:18 AM

looks like you put a lot of effort into that.. nice work

o_azlan · 07-10-2005, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadow34721

In reply to the previous posts,

Defrag:
I'm unsure what you mean by variance in tone of the ambient lighting. Perhaps you could clarify this a little? At any rate, thanks for the kind words and suggestions.

Read this tutorial on lighting that someone special shared with me

http://www.3d-mike.com/game/lighting.htm

o_valk · 07-10-2005, 01:16 PM

fucking
probably the best non ff-team map so far tbh
very well done

o_drtom · 07-10-2005, 02:19 PM

looks PRETTY GOOD MY MAN YES

o_ginger lord · 07-10-2005, 03:47 PM

Looks good, I agree with Defrag though on the lighting, its oversaturated and sucks the textures colour out of the map.

o_azlan · 07-10-2005, 04:28 PM

I'd really like to see this map in 8vs8 or 9vs9 format.

Defrag · 07-10-2005, 04:56 PM

This will explain it more:
http://www.3d-mike.com/game/lighting.htm

In other words, don't set your ambient and environment lights to be the same(ish) colours. The ambient colour is the tone that will be applied to all surfaces before lighting, and the environment light is the sunlight that will hit the surfaces. If you set both to a similar colour, it results in a washed out and saturated look. The tutorial I pasted has a lot more info on it.

o_shadow34721 · 07-10-2005, 08:45 PM

Thanks for the explanation Defrag.
I've read that lighting tutorial several times before, but that you said clarifies the ambient lighting issue.

Quote:

'The ambient colour is the tone that will be applied to all surfaces before lighting'

helps immensely as I didn't know what it actually was before you said that.

Although the washed out look I was using was somewhat intentional, I'll play around with the lighting and hopefully get some comparison screens up shortly.

EDIT: Comparison Screens
These were the results after a dozen or so lighting ombinations, tell me what you guys think.

Batts and Flagroom Comparisons (Sorry if they aren't lined up well)

And the individual screens for all three sets:

Defrag · 07-10-2005, 09:54 PM

Those look a LOT better imo. It just gives it a much nicer and balanced feel, rather than being what can only be described as overtly yellow

It makes the shadows much cooler looking (in both senses of the word).

o_kam · 07-10-2005, 10:07 PM

much better!

o_darksoul · 07-10-2005, 10:22 PM

Looking really good (Y)

New lighting improves it loads, keep up the good work!

o_demasu · 07-10-2005, 10:28 PM

F*ing awesome

**mervaka** · 07-10-2005, 11:14 PM

bang on

o_osiris · 07-11-2005, 12:47 AM

Brilliant!

Amazing work my friend

o_drtom · 07-11-2005, 06:41 AM

new_3 i assume everyones saying ! cause thats the nicest !

o_shadow34721 · 07-11-2005, 06:46 AM

Thanks for all the encouraging words.

new_3 is the one I've been leaning towards and been using for the time being. Once I top off some of the interior areas I'll post some indoor screenshots and possibly an avi.

Hopefully in not too long I can release some screens on a different map I've also been working on.

07-10-2005, 04:56 PM	#51
Defrag Retired FF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Scotland Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	This will explain it more: http://www.3d-mike.com/game/lighting.htm In other words, don't set your ambient and environment lights to be the same(ish) colours. The ambient colour is the tone that will be applied to all surfaces before lighting, and the environment light is the sunlight that will hit the surfaces. If you set both to a similar colour, it results in a washed out and saturated look. The tutorial I pasted has a lot more info on it. __________________ Fortress Forever. Level Designer, Gameplay Dude and whatnot.

07-10-2005, 09:54 PM	#53
Defrag Retired FF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Scotland Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Those look a LOT better imo. It just gives it a much nicer and balanced feel, rather than being what can only be described as overtly yellow It makes the shadows much cooler looking (in both senses of the word). __________________ Fortress Forever. Level Designer, Gameplay Dude and whatnot.

07-10-2005, 03:31 AM	#42
o_imbrifer Join Date: May 2005 Location: Changes every few months Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Looks great. Here are my thoughts: On the top screenshot (battlements) the grate with the red behind it looks a little artificial. Maybe add a border around the grate? On the second screenshot, the part in the middle where the concrete cradles the rock - the wall looks cut off. Maybe add a border there, or do some texture manipulation to make it look designed to be that way? In the third shot I love the way the floor curves and has the border texture. Maybe spunk up the ceiling? It looks alright and depending on the rest of the map there might be a place for a flat ceiling. The texture on the columns may need to be addressed - is the one on the left curved? It looks like a block from the angle of the screenie, and in my opinion it is sort of awkward with the texture it has next to the floor texture. Again, as mentioned in my response to the first screenshot, the grate with red light behind it looks a bit cut off, or artificial or what have you. On the following shot (and I must say you did an AMAZING job there) the border around the fence looks a bit too dark. On the second to last shot, I think the wall object behind the fence looks odd (though the broken tiles and the ground look excellent). Maybe make displacements and superimpose them on parts if it is supposed to be 'rubble', or make broken pipes jutting out, or make the broad wall facing the camera a displacement surface with the current texture blended with a sort of rubble texture, and make inward dents with alpha masked rubble? Again, you are doing an amazing job, and though my criticism is picky, I wouldn't waste the time if I didn't know this was going to be a spactacular map. Keep up the great work!

07-10-2005, 04:03 AM	#43
o_shadow34721 Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	In reply to imbrifer's questions... In the third picture the right pillar is curved. The reason for this was that I was forced to scale back the walkways by about 16-24 units because the player wasn't able to walk under it (even though you easily can in tfc, weird...) Since I did not wish to have greatly varying width on the walkway, I reduced that pillar by curving. The texture on it has always bugged me tbh, however the batts/yard hasn't been fully developed at the moment and is soon to get some additional detail work. The one on the left is not curved, but has been left that way to complement the quadrilateral base below it. Together, they retain the same texturing scheme as is seen outside of the base. I do not plan to change the ceiling since preserving gameplay is top priority for me on this particular map. You note on the fourth picture that the black trim seems out of place, but I assure you it is merely a relic of previous versions of the map and will eventually be dealt with accordingly. On the sixth picture, the odd-looking wall is there to hide a transition from displacements to 3dskybox tbh. I would've liked to make a larger and smoother transition for this area, however at one point rendering and fps come into play, and as we all know congestus is a very conc-heavy map. A large fps drop when entering the flagroom would be detrimental to gameplay to say the least. (for a while I was averaging 20 fps in there until I learned about my new buddy, optimization. I now maintain a solid 80 fps on a radeon 9600) Sometimes looks have to be sacrificed to achieve better gameplay and performance. I only wish I knew more about it when I started this map, perhaps I wouldn't still be cleaning up my old messes :D although such things are intrinsic to a first map I suppose. At some upcoming time I'll have to create a short video showcasing some aspects of the map.

07-10-2005, 04:35 AM	#44
o_imbrifer Join Date: May 2005 Location: Changes every few months Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Sounds delicious, and thanks for the quick reply! I know what you mean about optimization - when I flipped and compiled the map I've been working on, the compile time went from 2 to 21 hours, all the brush-based entities were turned into world brushes, and the framerate dropped to the floor. Wish I constructed the level with the optimization I now know in mind. Anyway, here's a link someone on these forums posted that covers just about all I've been able to find on optimization: http://www.student.kun.nl/rvanhoorn/...n.htm#chapter5 and I'll go back to cleaning my map... Anyway, rock on.

07-10-2005, 05:18 AM	#45
o_weetbix Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	looks like you put a lot of effort into that.. nice work

07-10-2005, 01:16 PM	#47
o_valk Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Australia Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	fucking probably the best non ff-team map so far tbh very well done

07-10-2005, 02:19 PM	#48
o_drtom Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	looks PRETTY GOOD MY MAN YES

07-10-2005, 03:47 PM	#49
o_ginger lord Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Carlisle, UK Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Looks good, I agree with Defrag though on the lighting, its oversaturated and sucks the textures colour out of the map.

07-10-2005, 04:28 PM	#50
o_azlan Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Tennessee Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I'd really like to see this map in 8vs8 or 9vs9 format.

07-10-2005, 10:07 PM	#54
o_kam Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Melbourne Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	much better!

07-10-2005, 10:22 PM	#55
o_darksoul Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: kidderminster, uk Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Looking really good (Y) New lighting improves it loads, keep up the good work!

07-10-2005, 10:28 PM	#56
o_demasu Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	F*ing awesome

07-10-2005, 11:14 PM	#57
mervaka A Very Sound Guy! Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: May 2005 Location: UK Posts Rated Helpful 15 Times	bang on

07-11-2005, 12:47 AM	#58
o_osiris Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: In your pants. Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Brilliant! Amazing work my friend

07-11-2005, 06:41 AM	#59
o_drtom Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	new_3 i assume everyones saying ! cause thats the nicest !

07-11-2005, 06:46 AM	#60
o_shadow34721 Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Thanks for all the encouraging words. new_3 is the one I've been leaning towards and been using for the time being. Once I top off some of the interior areas I'll post some indoor screenshots and possibly an avi. Hopefully in not too long I can release some screens on a different map I've also been working on.

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