Beliefs on God, the Universe, and Everything

[Bridget]

What are your general beliefs on everything? Do you believe it was created by some divine driving force or by some individual god? Considering this is the debate form, it is best that you do not flame or troll other individuals for their differing opinions, but it should also be noted that being critical or questioning of someone is not inherently disrespectful.

I do not believe in a personal god because it seems that life contradicts one. Many religious individuals state that man's worldly evils are not contradictions, for god gave them free will. Regardless, life is an inherent contradiction in itself. What god would create or allow to perpetuate the diseases like cancer and aids, allow the poor design such as the backward wiring of the eye or the twisted veins (as opposed to straight) of the Giraffe's neck, or the destructive forces of nature's tornadoes, hurricanes, tsunamis, volcanoes, earthquakes, and so on? I believe god is nothing more than a failed explanation formed from our early ignorance, and that it has been perpetuated only because mankind has an ego and is desperate and weak.

Some religious beliefs generally inspire poor morality, which degrade the value of life. It is apparent in the rejection of stem cell research, the hypocrisy of 'pro-lifers' who are also 'pro-death penalty', and the dozens upon dozens of wars on religious grounds between religious factions for religious reasons. The presumption that nothing happens after death, should ideally inspire a value of life infinitely better than religious beliefs. Individuals would be less likely to kill one another, neglect medical research, or even deny the happiness or love of other individuals regardless of their sexual orientation because some 'cosmic authority' said so, if they actually cherished and valued life through the presumption that you probably don't 'get a second infinitely better life'. We have the power to make this life as good or bad as we want it. We can't expect some 'man in the sky' to do it for us. Look how far that has taken us.

So what do I believe? I believe in many aspects apparent in the non-theistic religion of Jainism without the sometimes overly supernatural sugar-coating. First and foremost, I believe the universe and all its contents are infinite in material though not form. The universe had no beginning nor will it have an end. The concept of beginnings and endings being necessary are 'human', because we deal with items with these limitations on a daily basis. I believe that matter and energy (interchangeable) are infinite ('Jiva' in Jainism). It can take the form of 'Bridget' today or part of an exploding star in the far reaches of the cosmos the next. When we die, that's it. Our concentrated forms (bodies) and their aspects (conciousness, personality, and so on) break down but not their material. The material goes back into the cycle of life. That's not depressing to me, it's beautiful. Unless, of course, my energy goes toward a trash can or something instead of a field of flowers. Damn. I know this sounds like the consequence of too much marijuana, don't remind me.

Recognize, that the molecules that make up your body, the atoms that construct the molecules, are traceable to the crucibles that were once the centers of high mass stars, which exploded their chemically enriched 'guts' into the galaxy, enriching pristine gas clouds with the chemistry of LIFE. So that we're all connected, to each other biologically, to the Earth chemically, and to the rest of the universe atomically. That's kinda cool. That makes me smile. And, I actually feel quite large after that. It's not that we're better than the universe, we're in the universe and the universe is also within us.
- Neil deGrasse Tyson

The Cosmos is also within us.
We're made of star stuff.
We are the way for the Cosmos to know itself.
- Carl Sagan

What do you think?

[Iggy]

I don't have time to comment on the entire subject.... I'll edit my post later for that.

However, I do wish to state that there is not always a conflict between being "pro life" and supporting the death penalty. Being "pro-life" means you want to give the being a chance at life. Being in favor of the death penalty means supporting the protection of society(not revenge, as many people state) by permanently removing someone who has proven to not be socially adaptable.

Example: A fetus has not commited any crime, other than being the sperm that reached the egg. It has done nothing against anyone/anything else. A murderer, however, has removed forever, the chance for another being to the right to life.... AND adversly affected the lives of those who cared for said being. Generally, this is done without provocation or justification.

Edit: Ok, I said I would get into the deeper meanings when I edited. That's now.

I don't fault anyone for their beliefs, so long as they are not harming anyone else due to their beliefs. If you want to call your God, "George".... that's fine by me.

I am more of a spiritual being. This is mostly due to experiences I have personally had, rather than the teachings of someone following a specific book. Religeon is something that affects you directly, but for the most part, is something based on faith, rather than experience. THIS is where, I believe, most of the problems begin.

Do I believe Jesus lived? Yes. I believe that he lived, in roughly the time frame we are told.

Is he the son of God? Yes, but then again, so are we all. We are all Gods children, in one way or another.

Is there a "Devil"? Depends on how you mean that. The "Devil", AKA; Satan, Beelzebub, and many other names. Religeon touts this entity as the embodyment of evil. Some cultures believe that "hell" is cold, while others believe it to be filled with fire and brimstone.

It all depends greatly on one's individual point of view.

I got into a rather heated debate some years back with a friend of mine... who believed that anyone who either rejects Jesus, or didn't even hear of him, would go to Hell. A child born in Borneo, without being babtised, who died, would go to Hell for all eternity.

Yeah, I find that fucked up. I also defy someone to justify that action as one that a "merciful God" would commit to.

[Etzell]

My response to this thread is 42.

Also the bit about pro-life/pro-death penalty hypocrisy really only works if it's a devoutly religious person talking about the unborn child's soul not being saved, as at ANY point in a man's life (before AND after he's killed 20 other people) they can theoretically be redeemed by Christ and saved. If that's not what they care about, then I don't particularly see any hypocrisy, for reasons Iggy's outlined.

My personal beliefs are agnostic, but I do rather enjoy the Buddhist quote about worrying about an afterlife being something akin to a preoccupied child playing with toys in a house that is burning to the ground.

[Credge]

I'll edit this post as I go (playing golf with my family on the Wii... the ol' Tiger Woods).

I agree with Iggy for the most part. To add my own to it, to say that the debate between abortion is pro-life and pro-choice is kind of dumb. Almost everybody is both pro-life and pro-choice. It's like a reverse strawman.

I also hate how it's a black and white issue when it's not.

I'll edit in my views on god and what not as I go.

With proof, I would believe in the existance of a god. However, because it is an extraordinary claim, extraordinary evidence must exisist as well. It's similar to Global Warming, where my stance is similar.

[FrenchToast]

Originally Posted by Credge

With proof, I would believe in the existance of a god. However, because it is an extraordinary claim, extraordinary evidence must exisist as well.]

Really? I'd take any evidence. I would love to believe in God, or be religious. Believing in something that deeply must be an awesome feeling, but I can't do it if there's no reason.

[Hawk Eye]

Aye, if some undeniable evidence of a supreme being were to arise- I'd be fucking stoked.

As it is now, however, I have apparently similar views with the rest of you guys. Frankly, I don't care how the Universe started (or re-started, for that matter). IT doesn't affect me. I also believe that matter and energy are exchangeable, and that, from this revalation, we are ultimately one.

Yeah, it sounds corny, but I don't care.

I believe in Man. I think that we, as a species, have the ingenuity and drive to accomplish practically anything. I see our species evolving and growing over time until we may just embody the ideas of "Demi-Gods" and Gods that we have been so obsessed with throughout our natural history. I believe that, with the proper use and development of technology, Man may one day become immortal (save from the interruption by the hands of another).

I used to think about stuff like this all the time. This could be a very interesting thread, indeed.

[FrenchToast]

For fun thought experiments, have you guys read God's Debris by Scott Adams? It's available free online and only takes an hour or two to read it. I suggest you all do.

[Hawk Eye]

I'll hit it up some time this weekend while in between massive coding sessions.

A friend sent me this a while back- I thought it was interesting.

http://www.multivax.com/last_question.html

[Bridget]

Originally Posted by Hawk Eye

http://www.multivax.com/last_question.html

What the fuck. . .

God's Debris?

[FrenchToast]

Si, read it sometime when you're bored.

[Bridget]

Well, I read it. I don't know what to say. Yet.

[YomMamasHouse]

I don't have religious beliefs as there is nothing solid to scientifically test or evaluate. I could search my feelings and come up with cool heaven and hell and god concepts, but that would just be me attempting to paint a human face on the universe - something which is pointless and rather silly.

[GenghisTron]

Religion and the creation of the universe are entirely irrelevant. It's a gigantic catch 22--you either believe or you don't, and it's impossible to prove currently. I'd rather focus my intellectual energy on political and ethical theory. As for my personal beliefs, I'm more of an agnostic/deist, since I don't know for sure, but I know I reject typical Judeo-christian thiesm outright.

[Scuzzy]

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I'd be more interested to start at a more granular level. Putting aside religious beliefs, specific Gods, etc.... Far to often we get into semantic conversations about the definition of terms. A question more at the heart of the idea, rather then the detailed interpretation of the individual would be more telling I think:

Do you believe you are more then your physical form?

My answer would be, Yes. As a Christian that's self evident. For those that may not embrace or have a clear cut definition of their beliefs (or lack thereof), not so much. It's that question I think would be the most interesting to explore, and probably the most frightening for people here to answer.

Scuzzy

[FrenchToast]

Originally Posted by Scuzzy

Do you believe you are more then your physical form?

Nope. And I think that'll be proven soon when we create computers that mimic the human brain. I think the opposite of you in fact, which is that people think they are because they're afraid that they're actually just a mammal and nothing special in an unforgiving world.

[Bridget]

I don't believe I am anything more than a physical form. All the things that make my conciousness and thought process and identity and personality and interests work are physical at the core of things. I don't believe we're as dynamic as we like to think we are. Our brains are nothing more than organic computers trying to figure out how best to survive. The brain does a damn good job at it. Do we consider the choices and pick one or does the brain subconsciously consider them survival values and picks one that it thinks will best perpetuate itself? Aside from one exception (suicide) I can see how every action subjectively morally holy or bankrupt can be favored over others for survival. Maybe the serial killer isn't aware, but his brain has him believe that killing a dozen people will lead to his own better survival. I don't know, uh. . .

But, why does it do that? The brain? Why does a seemingly unconscious Tarantula sometimes fight to the death to protect its offspring packaged in an eggsac? Is there a reason? Shit, maybe I'm deluded myself with the presupposition of reason or purpose. I don't know. My brain isn't wired to know. I am less ignorant than an oblivious cow chewing grass, but still ignorant on the whole. We are so preoccupied with 'this answer' yet have we really sat down and thought about whether or not we understand 'the question' well enough to jump ahead to the answer? Shit, man. No.D:

[YomMamasHouse]

I suspect we exist in an entirely physical sense. The more than your body thing is without argument impossible to test at the moment.

I wouldn't state that I know with 100% certainty that we are purely physical in nature, but not being disproved in no way means proved.

[YomMamasHouse]

Originally Posted by FrenchToast

I think the opposite of you in fact, which is that people think they are because they're afraid that they're actually just a mammal and nothing special in an unforgiving world.

I think that is a perfect explanation for the existence of almost every spiritual belief. People have this unfailing capacity to believe what they want to, not sure what its purpose is, but I regard it as one of the more unfortunate aspects of our evolution.

[Scuzzy]

Originally Posted by YomMamasHouse

I suspect we exist in an entirely physical sense. The more than your body thing is without argument impossible to test at the moment.

I wouldn't state that I know with 100% certainty that we are purely physical in nature, but not being disproved in no way means proved.

So we're on the same page, I specifically am moving away from what can or can not be proved, because I see little point that discussion from either perspective. That's why I asked what people believe themselves.

[Iggy]

Ok, just for the sake of injecting it into the discussion....

How do you explain away the experiences some people have claimed to had when experiencing a "near death experience", as well as those who can claim to hear the whispers from beyond?

(Note, I actually count myself in the latter group.)

I understand that no "presentable" proof can be given to support these events, but were we, for an experiment, put one of you into that situation(no, I'm not suggesting we do that).... and then you claimed to have a change in beliefs.... how would you support your thinking to other non-believers?