UB3R FOUL UP

[KubeDawg]

Originally Posted by battery

You may disagree with me on this. But let me tell you one important thing I learn from going thru high school in America:

Don't always try to convince people with reasoning, because, more often than not, there is a better alternative. Evoking emotions from your audience is far more effective. Realize that most people are just like animals. They live solely on their emotions: love, hate, pride, respect, vanity. Their "morals" and "beliefs" are usually based on shallow feelings, or peer pressure. Reason? Logic? Pffff, they don't have time for that. The consequence is they seldom question their own beliefs. As long as it feels good, they care less whether their beliefs actually make good sense. Politicians are capable to swaying public opinions becuase they know how to manipulate emotions.

I don't know if 3nigma is this type of person. But before attempting to reason with him, I'd rather find out what kind of tactics he is receptive to. Perhaps he is a typical teenager, who will listen to anything you say as long as he likes you. But may be he is the kind of guy who is usually very logical and open to different perspectives. I don't know. But this is something that you should find out before doing anything else.

No. If someone is too stupid to comprehend another person's reasoning, or are too blinded by their own amibitions or beliefs, it's noone else's fault but their own. And if they get hurt in the process, and wonder why, let them figure it out. Ignorance is the most common reason why people get confused and angry about things in life, you shouldn't try to take advantage of their emotions because of it. give them the reasons why something is a certain way, and if they don't like it, then screw em... He's not wrong, as that's his own opinion in regards to SG sabbing, but if you can't logically explain something to someone, then they will have a really hard time trying to understand...

[binky]

Hi I am brand new to FF, in fact I bought hl2 just to get the engine to try this. I wondered wtf enemy spies were doing near my teams sg's! (and dying horribly because I dont put up with that sort of nonsense in my base!)
I played in old qwtf, and I also played a mod called custom tf where spies could also take over an enemy sentry gun with a skill they had to be in range to use and it takes time, so its second nature for me to watch anybody near friendly builds, and investigate if they seem to be acting unnaturally, or even being idle. So go right ahead mr spy, try to sabotague my team's sg's. You *might* take one if I am slacking, but thats the last one you will get because then I will be watching even closer, and I have a present for you.

All personel entering resticted areas will greet me by discharging their weapon, or be fired upon/spannered.

I dont see this as a big deal, its fun, and if anything, it encourages spies to allow a sg to survive for a sabotague attempt rather then just gren them, and imo its way easier to stop a spy trying to hack a gun, then kamakaziing it with nades so the sabotague feature might actually HELP me to defend effectively.

-Morgoth, the newb who killed you.

[4est]

Originally Posted by binky

-Morgoth, the newb who killed you.

I like this ^

[Desyphur]

Originally Posted by 4est

I like this ^

I agree with this ^

[battery]

In TFC, sentries cannot be sabotaged. The result is that engineers build they guns and dispensers to guard their base, and then wait...and wait...and wait. And no one comes. So what's they are gonna do? How about going out to toss some EMP's around? If a spy come in to destroy my sentry, no big deal! I'll just build another one quickly.

With the sabotage feature in FF, engineers actually have to stick to their guns. Or else....
________
Pornstars Jewish

[KubeDawg]

Not really, I mean I stay within a certain proximity of my SG, but it can usually handle it's own. I'm a pretty good spy checker, so my SG hardly ever gets sabbed.

[Arx]

The problem is, what is there to stop a team, especially on a public server, from all going engineers, all building sentry guns, helping to upgrade them (in their own base) and then leaving a few people behind while the rest of them attack. Players only get a certain amount of grenades, and a good engineer can keep a sentry up against several attackers, at least for a while.

If that good engineer has 6 gun's at his disposal, those 6 guns would destroy and offence, and if 1 or 2 of them go down, big deal, with 3 engineers it takes about 5 seconds to get a gun back up and running again.

Spies will be no good, sure they can get into the base, but they aren't going to leave with the flag, and they aren't going to kill 6 sentry guns with 4 grenades. This modification to the original TFC design means a defence cannot rely solely on sentry guns in defence. If one of those sentries gets sabbed, it has the potential to take out your entire defence.


By allowing spies to sabotage, it ties an engineer to his sentry gun more. He's not totally stuck to it with glue, he just needs to be around it, or have alert team mates around it as well.

Lastly, sabotaging a sentry gun is not easy. Firstly you can't cloak near a sentry, it shoots you. This means you have to go in with disguise only. If I see anyone near my gun, i'll shoot them (if friendly fire is off) or hit them with spanner (if friendly fire is on). Your sabotage gets interrupted whenever you take damage. The spy also can't shoot you, if he does, he will lose his disguise and the sentry will rape his face. He is forced to run away or die. If he runs, great, leave him, don't let him take you into a combat zone away from your sentry gun. At the end of the day, that spy is not going to get your flag.

If you're trying to rely on your sentry gun to get you easy kills while you go and do whatever you want, your not playing an engineer very effectily.

Also, engineers did not get gimped in FF. You have a railgun that does a lot of damage (does more damage on bounces incase you didn't know) and your sentry gun is more effective and harder to kill (due to grenades not sliding up ramps and having a much less splash effect).

I'm happy playing an engineer and I'm also happy playing a spy, both have great roles in the game.

[paranoidkirb]

Engineers don't make great flag cappers. They have no movement skills besides the Railgun-jump which is slow. Any decent defense would rip through a wave of engineers.

Also, MIRVs.

[Agent Buckshot Moose]

My favorite counter to sentry guns that don't die are Snipers. One fully charged shot will pop the SG and most likely the Engineer along with it. It's kind of funny actually.

[Phisionary]

I think sabotage is a great feature. Sometimes I wish I wasn't so tied to my sentry, however. If your team defense is doing good, it can be very slow sitting around waiting for someone to come by, but if you don't, a spy could pop by and kill your defense. It's quite trying at times.

And relying on your team (on pub's, at least) to protect your sentry is a bad idea, usually.

Originally Posted by Arx

You have a railgun that does a lot of damage (does more damage on bounces incase you didn't know) [...]

really? I didn't....

[greenday5494]

yea i like taking out SGs as a snipers. thats fun! its really useful in Dustbowl!

[s0undch4s3r]

Originally Posted by 3NiGmA

The game stayed amazingly true to the original TFC...except for one small thing...WHO THE HELL decided it would be a good idea to allow the spy to cap an SG (sentrygun)???!!!! It's hard enough to defend the flag without worrying about my own SG's taking me down. It's NOT TFC...if you wanted to make a NEW game that is one thing...but this, you can't just add random shit to an amazing recreation and call it Team Fortress...you throw the whole damned thing out of balance...if you were going to do that you should have gone ahead and implemented the old NeoTF addons...but now its unbalanced...and I have been a devoted TFC player for years...and Sad to say...im deleting this from my computer until I see some sort of balance to this SG capping BS done.

Otherwise, good job, good luck, and good bye. Merry Christmas.

ROFL.......RAGED OUT For The Lose.