Beta Testing.

[exoskeletaL]

TFC is not too flawed at all, have u ever played a match? They run perfect. The only time anyone bitches about anything is when someone chooses to be gay and ovo or something. Get a grip on reality, i mean TFC

[SkynYrd]

Originally Posted by Circuitous

TFC *is* a severely flawed game, and the competitive communities help to point this out quite easily. The class line-ups and strats are pretty much the same everywhere you go, yeah? Class limits, rules against certain exploits, things like that. The "Gentlemen's Rules" of clanned TFC are pretty much necessary for the game to be playable.

Hmm... maybe that's because VALVE DID NOT ANTICIPATE THAT LEAGUE PLAY WOULD EVOLVE OUTSIDE THE BOUNDARIES THEY ORIGINALLY INTENDED. When I say TFC is not severely flawed, I don't mean that I worship Valve for giving me a 100% perfect game. I don't care for TFC the way they envisioned it... I love what the game has become.

Originally Posted by Circuitous

Also, if you think those "movement exploits" (which have been featured in every TF game, Unreal Fortress excepting) are only added in to appease TFC clanners...

You're putting words into my mouth Circ... and it's fucking annoying.

Tell me again, where did I say that? Oh wait... I found it...

Originally Posted by me

How can you say this when the devs chose to include the "movement expoits" in TFC that "were not intended by valve," especially considering that many pub players hate them? I'll tell you why... because they ARE ACCEPTED by the competitive community, and thats where most devs. come from.

Where did I say that they were added in only to appease TFC clanners?

What I said is that, regarding the schism between pub players and league players regarding bhop/concing... the devs OBVIOUSLY favored the side of the competitive community because those very features are in FF. I did not say the devs put in bhop and concing to appease TFC clanners.

They didn't have to appease anyone Circ... they put them in FF because they wanted them there. As members of the competitive community, they understood that they were vital to the style of gameplay they loved.

Originally Posted by Circuitous

If you're expecting TFC bhop I'm afraid you're going to be quite disappointed.

From what I have read and understand about bhop in FF, I can tell you that I WONT be disappointed because it sounds like exactly what we want... advanced but balanced movement.

Originally Posted by Circuitous

I'm afraid the only one here that's actually blind (yet continues to discuss it) is you.

More like I am the only one that won't back down from your retarded logic. Pardon me for not taking shit from someone making accusations about a game that I have played twice as long and ten times as much.

[Etzell]

Originally Posted by SkynYrd

Hmm... maybe that's because VALVE DID NOT ANTICIPATE THAT LEAGUE PLAY WOULD EVOLVE OUTSIDE THE BOUNDARIES THEY ORIGINALLY INTENDED. When I say TFC is not severely flawed, I don't mean that I worship Valve for giving me a 100% perfect game. I don't care for TFC the way they envisioned it... I love what the game has become.

It doesn't matter what they anticipated. The point is, if the game weren't severely flawed, you'd see snipers and pyros, multiple HWs being allowed, all that stuff. You don't. It's an outstanding game, for sure, but it's very, very flawed. Hell, even looking into the creator's intent you can see that it's flawed. In theory, 2fort was made so that people can capture the flag. We'll give the pub the benefit of a doubt that the teams are fair and split evenly between "o" and "d". If the people on "o" are killing each other on the bridge, no one is getting the flag. (Hell, even with "Gentlemen's rules" no one gets the flag.)
TFC is outstanding, but it's got its major problems. I don't know how you can even try to argue that. You talk about loving the game, which is fine, I do to. But loving it doesn't mean denying that it has problems.

[squeek.]

How this is a heated argument is beyond me.

Could everyone involved post the point they are trying to prove so I can tell what in the world is going on?

Right now, as I understand it, SkynYrd (and exo [r.i.p.]) is/was trying to prove that FF is based off of TFC. Everyone else is trying to prove that FF is based off of TFC, with changes, along with influences from other games.

...what? All you guys are on the same side. Realize it.

Again, the end-all point: Fortress-Forever is [*|Team|* Team] Fortress[*] on Source.

[barronofhellion]

imo i dont like bunnyhopping, double jumping , its not scatebording, i seriously think that it should admin based controlled... this way both are happy, if you say the admins wont be able to figure it out... i find that hard to believe... with mods like warcraft and plug-ins that let the admins ban kick scratch tear and bite.. but theres no pleasing the 1000's of 7 year olds and there rapid action kung-foo grips so i guess we will just have to deal with bunnyhoping and 780' tricksters with a summersault backflips

[Etzell]

Server-side vars are confusing to newbies. If you start playing a game, and you can do crazy things in one place, and you can't in another, it's rather confusing. So the server owners aren't going to get to control gameplay as much as they used to, which is a good thing.
It's meant to be in the game, deal with it.

[barronofhellion]

Originally Posted by Etzell

Server-side vars are confusing to newbies.

huh... i dont even see how anybody can be that daft, its really simple .. oh look i cant bunnyhop , the server must have that disabled.. oh look i cant doublejump,, server has that disabled... then again im not 7 years old like some members here , i did not think about it that way so i guess your right etzell

[nodnarb]

Originally Posted by Coronius

How many Beta servers are there? I've spotted 2.

There are now 3.
EDIT: This link says 5. =/
http://www.game-monitor.com/search.p...er&type=server

[squeek.]

Originally Posted by barronofhellion

huh... i dont even see how anybody can be that daft, its really simple .. oh look i cant bunnyhop , the server must have that disabled.. oh look i cant doublejump,, server has that disabled... then again im not 7 years old like some members here , i did not think about it that way so i guess your right etzell

By "newbies" he meant first-time players. Not knowing what bunnyhopping is, it would be confusing to join a no bhop server first and then join a bhop server after that. This has been stated as the reason for no server-side bhop vars since the beginning, and it is still valid.

[Jetpac]

Originally Posted by squeek.

How this is a heated argument is beyond me.

Could everyone involved post the point they are trying to prove so I can tell what in the world is going on?

Right now, as I understand it, SkynYrd (and exo [r.i.p.]) is/was trying to prove that FF is based off of TFC. Everyone else is trying to prove that FF is based off of TFC, with changes, along with influences from other games.

...what? All you guys are on the same side. Realize it.

Again, the end-all point: Fortress-Forever is [*|Team|* Team] Fortress[*] on Source.

QFT

[barronofhellion]

Originally Posted by squeek.

This has been stated as the reason for no server-side bhop vars since the beginning, and it is still valid.

that was what i just said, i figure the newbie would be around 7yrs old that cant figure that out

[squeek.]

Originally Posted by barronofhellion

that was what i just said, i figure the newbie would be around 7yrs old that cant figure that out

Not all first time players are young. Also, if you knew the reason for not having bhop controlled server-side, what is the point of your first post?

[barronofhellion]

Originally Posted by squeek.

Not all first time players are young. Also, if you knew the reason for not having bhop controlled server-side, what is the point of your first post?

there was no point , i just felt like saying it... just like the 100,000 other posts by everybody here

[PHISH]

Originally Posted by barronofhellion

huh... i dont even see how anybody can be that daft, its really simple .. oh look i cant bunnyhop , the server must have that disabled.. oh look i cant doublejump,, server has that disabled... then again im not 7 years old like some members here , i did not think about it that way so i guess your right etzell

I'm not sure how you can be so daft to assume that everyone is a vet of the game that will be playing, or even knows what those terms are, let alone performing them from the get go. Can you imagine them trying to identify and learn these new skills when sometimes they are present and sometimes they are not, depending on what server they join? It is much better to keep that core gameplay consistent across all servers, not only to reduce confusion but to see your game played how it was envisioned, and improve it accordingly.

[barronofhellion]

Originally Posted by PHISH

I'm not sure how you can be so daft to assume that everyone is a vet of the game that will be playing, or even knows what those terms are, let alone performing them from the get go. Can you imagine them trying to identify and learn these new skills when sometimes they are present and sometimes they are not, depending on what server they join? It is much better to keep that core gameplay consistent across all servers, not only to reduce confusion but to see your game played how it was envisioned, and improve it accordingly.

well all i know is monkey see monkey do... its like wild fire, with little effort people can do things... when i 1st bunny hopped i was in a cs server.. guess what i went to another server that had it disabled, i wasn't like dohhha me no hop no more gahhh... i thought oh hmm im doing it the same, it most not be enabled on this server.... ehm and this was me ... a noob to cs... so many many years ago... i must have been just less nooby then you people consider nooby at the time... my thought really is, if somebody has enough competence to install a mod, they probably can figure that out

[mistermojo]

Originally Posted by barronofhellion

huh... i dont even see how anybody can be that daft, its really simple .. oh look i cant bunnyhop , the server must have that disabled.. oh look i cant doublejump,, server has that disabled... then again im not 7 years old like some members here , i did not think about it that way so i guess your right etzell

you sure type like one though

[nex nicholai]

Originally Posted by baron

with little effort people can do things... when i 1st bunny hopped i was in a cs server.. guess what i went to another server that had it disabled, i wasn't like dohhha me no hop no more gahhh... i thought oh hmm im doing it the same, it most not be enabled on this server

A person is smart. A person can figure it out. However, how a person acts is in no way shape or form related to how PEOPLE act. People are dumb, inpatient and childish. Ask anyone in sales, health care, or public service.

[SkynYrd]

Originally Posted by squeek.

How this is a heated argument is beyond me.

Could everyone involved post the point they are trying to prove so I can tell what in the world is going on?

Right now, as I understand it, SkynYrd (and exo [r.i.p.]) is/was trying to prove that FF is based off of TFC. Everyone else is trying to prove that FF is based off of TFC, with changes, along with influences from other games.

...what? All you guys are on the same side. Realize it.

Again, the end-all point: Fortress-Forever is [*|Team|* Team] Fortress[*] on Source.

You're absolutely right... the problem I have is that certain testers like to generalize and say "THIS GAME IS NOT A PORT DURRR" every time me or someone representing my side comments on how we hope [insert feature here] in FF is similar to how it was in TFC.

Am I wrong to hope that the GOOD things about TFC are left alone? I mean, why the fuck would you fix something that isn't broke... and when people act like royal asswipes when I bring this subject up, I get pissed.

They also generalize and assume that, since I make the argument that [insert feature here] in FF should be like it was in TFC, I must be a total blind retard because my tiny brain can't fathom the possibility of OTHER games in the TF series influencing FF.

Look, I understand that FF is a melting pot of all the things we love about all TF games. I am making the claim that TFC is just the MOST influential in terms of gameplay, and that it's a good thing... that doesn't mean I refuse to acknowledge the presence of other TF ideas throughout its development.

Originally Posted by Etzell

It doesn't matter what they anticipated. The point is, if the game weren't severely flawed, you'd see snipers and pyros, multiple HWs being allowed, all that stuff.

I can guarantee you, 101%, there will be class restrictions in FF CTF matches. The need for them does not mean the game is flawed. It is a necessary rule that forces diversity, and promotes better teamwork.

Originally Posted by Etzell

But loving it doesn't mean denying that it has problems.

I'm not denying the game has problems. However, IMO, the problems/expliots that DO exist usually fall into 2 categories: A) They are impractical in matches so noone bothers... B) They can easily be enforced.

Simply put... exploits are not a big deal in league play.

[barronofhellion]

Originally Posted by nex nicholai

People are dumb

hehe i guess i just give 'people' too much credit.. i think that maybe they just want bunnyhoping and special jumping in the mod because they want it in the mod... but dont want to own up to it..

SkynYrd: i agree its like they are green creatures that just lurk in here to jump on people after every suggestion they have... rather then have an open mind..

-edit im going back to the maping thread where people are constructive

[Desyphur]

Wow, people over on the mapping thread are more constructive then here? I'll go check it out. With people like you it could never be bad right?