Apple's Targeted Web Marketing...

o_jinx · 01-29-2007, 07:54 PM

I was reading the MSNBC & CNN articles on Vista and came across this interesting juxtaposition:

Also interesting to note: neither of the big Vista launch articles said a thing about the concerns that we've been seeing all over the web. Maybe because the news is owned by major media conglomerates?

o_tyrus · 01-29-2007, 08:06 PM

I heard that Vista "Home" edition will require you to have XP installed before installing. Meaning, it will simply upgrade your existing XP to Vista. Now thats crap. What if you buy Vista "Home" edition and either don't have XP or you have an illegitimate copy? Guess your fooked.

Also, is it true that Apple's OSX can run pc's? I heard some guy talking about it and I didn't believe a word he was saying!

o_jinx · 01-29-2007, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyrus

Also, is it true that Apple's OSX can run pc's? I heard some guy talking about it and I didn't believe a word he was saying!

Since Apple switched to Intel chips, they have added something called "boot camp" that allows you to run XP on your Mac (dual-boot basically). OSX, however, will not run on a regular PC- Apple wants you to buy their hardware. There have been people who have hacked OSX to run on a regular PC since Apple switched to the Intel chips, but I don't think it was ever that workable or practical to do so.

o_|404|innoc-tpf- · 01-29-2007, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyrus

I heard that Vista "Home" edition will require you to have XP installed before installing. Meaning, it will simply upgrade your existing XP to Vista. Now thats crap. What if you buy Vista "Home" edition and either don't have XP or you have an illegitimate copy? Guess your fooked.

I worried about that exact scenario. Any chance you could cite something to back that up? I had heard that DX10 would eventually make it into XP in SP3 and that turned out to be rumor mill stuff only. If they require an over the top upgrade that will make me choose another path for upgrade.

o_tyrus · 01-29-2007, 08:56 PM

http://it.slashdot.org/it/07/01/28/2240200.shtml

o_|404|innoc-tpf- · 01-29-2007, 09:05 PM

Thanks. I am not liking that at all...That needs to be fixed or bypassed. I'm going to buy my copies of Vista but I refuse to install one OS over the top of another. Nor do I want that hurdle in the way of post-disaster recovery efforts.

Circuitous · 01-29-2007, 09:13 PM

Your image didn't load but the link worked. Just letting you know, as I have no further comments.

o_leandros · 01-29-2007, 09:30 PM

Vista will be such a failure it's not even funny. Microsoft will hopefully become pressured to release a DX10 for XP or it'll be all shitty and not fun for all.

o_skull · 01-29-2007, 09:47 PM

When I read the title of the news for the first time I tought: Man, Bill has gone crazy and made Vista to privilege WoW players -_-'

o_tyrus · 01-29-2007, 10:14 PM

It looks like it was talking soley about upgrade versions.

In case you don't want to click the link I posted above:

Quote:

Originally Posted by arstechnica

Vista "upgrade" drops compliance checking, requires old OS to install

1/28/2007 3:11:14 PM, by Ken Fisher

Microsoft's quest to closely control the way Windows Vista can be used on PCs has taken a turn for the worse as new information indicates that the company is breaking tradition when it comes to Windows Vista upgrades. With Windows Vista, users will not be able to use upgrade keys to initiate completely new installations. It is a change that will affect few users, but enthusiasts will certainly be amongst those pinched.

Upgrade versions of Windows Vista Home Basic, Premium, and Starter Edition will not install on any PC unless Windows XP or Windows 2000 is already on the machine in question. In years previous, upgrade versions of Windows could be installed on any PC. If a PC did not have an older version of Windows installed, users could provide an older installation CD of Windows for verification. After dropping a qualifying CD in the CD-ROM drive, the installation routine would verify the disc and you'd be on your way. With this approach, one could use an "upgrade" copy of Windows to lay a new Windows install on a computer.

One again, Microsoft appears to have made licensing decisions without considering how people actually use their products. Last fall the company trotted out changes to its retail licensing that would have punished users who frequently upgrade their PC hardware had the company not relented. Now Microsoft seeks to complicate our ability to start a crisp, new install with an upgrade version. Why?
A 'per device' obsession

Microsoft has been adamant in recent years that Windows is licensed per device and not per person. One practical ramification of this viewpoint is that the company typically does not allow users to install one copy of Windows across multiple machines, even if only one machine is in use at a time. According to Microsoft, only the full retail license of Windows Vista can be transferred to new devices (retail pricing here). OEM versions are ostensibly tied to motherboards, and upgrade versions are now technically tied to previous installations.

What does all of this mean on a practical level? Users who purchase upgrade copies of the aforementioned versions of Vista will find that they can only upgrade PCs that already have Windows installed. KB930985 clearly states: "you cannot use an upgrade key to perform a clean installation of Windows Vista." According to Microsoft, this happens because Windows Vista does not check for upgrade compliance. If you do not have a previous installation of Windows available, Microsoft recommends that you "purchase a license that lets you perform a clean installation of Windows Vista."

For its part, Microsoft seems to be confident that the Vista repair process should be sufficient to solve any problems with the OS, since otherwise the only option for disaster recovery in the absence of backups would be to wipe a machine, install XP, and then upgrade to Vista. This will certainly make disaster recovery a more irritating experience.

Fortunately, the change will not mean that users cannot install Windows Vista to a new directory. Windows Vista's upgrade process includes the option of backing up previous installations, and in fact, in some scenarios a "clean" upgrade is required. "Clean" or not, the requirement that the previous OS be installed puts a bit of a damper on those of us that like the do periodic system refreshes.

What does Microsoft hope to gain out of all of this? I can only speculate. First, the change prevents a dual-license situation with all of the free Vista upgrade coupons out there. If things worked according to the old scheme, people with upgrade coupons would essentially get a "free" OS because they could install the Vista upgrade anywhere, and continue to use the version of Windows XP that came with their computer. Did Microsoft fear that this would happen quite a bit? It seems like an unlikely scenario.

Second, and likely more important to Microsoft, this should make it difficult for users to use a single upgrade copy of Vista throughout the years. I'm quite sure many of you in readerland have done exactly that in years past: build a computer, use your Windows upgrade disc. Build a new box three years later, use that same upgrade disc. Microsoft's preference would be for users in such situations to either purchase OEM copies for each new machine, or pay for a full version of the retail product.

o_thraine · 01-29-2007, 10:40 PM

I really don't think Microsoft is in any position to demand much from its users. With every iteration of Windows, they get closer to digital fascism. I, myself went to a Microsoft seminar on Office 2k7 last week. What I found was Open Office with a revamped UI in my opinion. Vista looks nice, and it's got a lot of nifty features. But let's be honest here, you're not going to get what you want out of Vista unless you shell out the cash for both top-end machine, and a full copy of Vista Ultimate Edition. Or you could be a true uber-nerd, and just use Linux and code your own games using OpenGL.... which would kill your social life, emotional stability, and your balls would shrink.

o_zsilver_fox · 01-30-2007, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by |404|Innoc-TPF-

Thanks. I am not liking that at all...That needs to be fixed or bypassed. I'm going to buy my copies of Vista but I refuse to install one OS over the top of another. Nor do I want that hurdle in the way of post-disaster recovery efforts.

UPGRADE versions of them, the link says. They're cheaper anyway.

o_|404|innoc-tpf- · 01-30-2007, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zSilver_Fox

UPGRADE versions of them, the link says. They're cheaper anyway.

Yeah, I didn't post that but I was aware of that restriction after reading the article that was linked. I am hopeful that this restriction will be addressed and "fixed" before I buy....otherwise I'll end up buying a full version.

o_nuk3m · 01-30-2007, 07:34 AM

i have to point out the pain in the ass this is going to cause to businesses and networks. as an average network consists of around 500 pc's such as schools and tech labs. with the vista DRM bs and copyright code about one cd to one device is going to screw up many people.

personally its just microsoft trying to milk every dollar from the buyers. 4 pcs = 4 vistas. of course they were thinking money over mechanics. they know its a pain in the ass but they dont care.

i see a large pirate war in the near future. .torrent files here we come!

o_jinx · 01-30-2007, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuk3m

i have to point out the pain in the ass this is going to cause to businesses and networks. as an average network consists of around 500 pc's such as schools and tech labs. with the vista DRM bs and copyright code about one cd to one device is going to screw up many people.

I recall the Sony rootkit DRM causing problems at businesses; nobody would think that a person playing a regular audio cd on their work PC would cause issues.

o_darkness24713 · 01-30-2007, 08:44 PM

Xp>2000>98>95>vista

Circuitous · 01-30-2007, 08:49 PM

Ouch, damn. That's maybe a little TOO harsh, darkness.

I notice ME isn't on the list. Are we just trying to forget that one?

o_|404|innoc-tpf- · 01-30-2007, 09:21 PM

He tried to put ME in there but his PC BSOD'ed in protest.

Circuitous · 01-30-2007, 09:27 PM

Some guy in my Visual Design Theory class was trying to upgrade his laptop from Windows Me. BSOD'd twice. It was hilarious and terrifying all at once.

o_jinx · 01-30-2007, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by |404|Innoc-TPF-

He tried to put ME in there but his PC BSOD'ed in protest.

01-29-2007, 07:54 PM	#1
o_jinx Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ohio Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Apple's Targeted Web Marketing... I was reading the MSNBC & CNN articles on Vista and came across this interesting juxtaposition: Also interesting to note: neither of the big Vista launch articles said a thing about the concerns that we've been seeing all over the web. Maybe because the news is owned by major media conglomerates?

01-29-2007, 09:13 PM	#7
Circuitous Useless Retired FF Staff Join Date: Jun 2005 Class/Position: D Soldier, O Scout Gametype: AvD Posts Rated Helpful 9 Times	Your image didn't load but the link worked. Just letting you know, as I have no further comments. __________________ Look at all those dead links.

01-30-2007, 08:49 PM	#17
Circuitous Useless Retired FF Staff Join Date: Jun 2005 Class/Position: D Soldier, O Scout Gametype: AvD Posts Rated Helpful 9 Times	Ouch, damn. That's maybe a little TOO harsh, darkness. I notice ME isn't on the list. Are we just trying to forget that one? __________________ Look at all those dead links.

01-30-2007, 09:27 PM	#19
Circuitous Useless Retired FF Staff Join Date: Jun 2005 Class/Position: D Soldier, O Scout Gametype: AvD Posts Rated Helpful 9 Times	Some guy in my Visual Design Theory class was trying to upgrade his laptop from Windows Me. BSOD'd twice. It was hilarious and terrifying all at once. __________________ Look at all those dead links.

01-29-2007, 08:06 PM	#2
o_tyrus Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I heard that Vista "Home" edition will require you to have XP installed before installing. Meaning, it will simply upgrade your existing XP to Vista. Now thats crap. What if you buy Vista "Home" edition and either don't have XP or you have an illegitimate copy? Guess your fooked. Also, is it true that Apple's OSX can run pc's? I heard some guy talking about it and I didn't believe a word he was saying!

01-29-2007, 08:56 PM	#5
o_tyrus Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	http://it.slashdot.org/it/07/01/28/2240200.shtml

01-29-2007, 09:05 PM	#6
o_\|404\|innoc-tpf- Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: The Midtown Express Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Thanks. I am not liking that at all...That needs to be fixed or bypassed. I'm going to buy my copies of Vista but I refuse to install one OS over the top of another. Nor do I want that hurdle in the way of post-disaster recovery efforts.

01-29-2007, 09:30 PM	#8
o_leandros Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Dutchelandae Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Vista will be such a failure it's not even funny. Microsoft will hopefully become pressured to release a DX10 for XP or it'll be all shitty and not fun for all.

01-29-2007, 09:47 PM	#9
o_skull Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	When I read the title of the news for the first time I tought: Man, Bill has gone crazy and made Vista to privilege WoW players -_-'

01-29-2007, 10:40 PM	#11
o_thraine Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I really don't think Microsoft is in any position to demand much from its users. With every iteration of Windows, they get closer to digital fascism. I, myself went to a Microsoft seminar on Office 2k7 last week. What I found was Open Office with a revamped UI in my opinion. Vista looks nice, and it's got a lot of nifty features. But let's be honest here, you're not going to get what you want out of Vista unless you shell out the cash for both top-end machine, and a full copy of Vista Ultimate Edition. Or you could be a true uber-nerd, and just use Linux and code your own games using OpenGL.... which would kill your social life, emotional stability, and your balls would shrink.

01-30-2007, 07:34 AM	#14
o_nuk3m Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Jersy, USA! reppin' Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	i have to point out the pain in the ass this is going to cause to businesses and networks. as an average network consists of around 500 pc's such as schools and tech labs. with the vista DRM bs and copyright code about one cd to one device is going to screw up many people. personally its just microsoft trying to milk every dollar from the buyers. 4 pcs = 4 vistas. of course they were thinking money over mechanics. they know its a pain in the ass but they dont care. i see a large pirate war in the near future. .torrent files here we come!

01-30-2007, 08:44 PM	#16
o_darkness24713 Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Xp>2000>98>95>vista

01-30-2007, 09:21 PM	#18
o_\|404\|innoc-tpf- Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: The Midtown Express Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	He tried to put ME in there but his PC BSOD'ed in protest.

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