ffdev roll call

[KubeDawg]

While ninja rope is the best tool in worms, it by no means needs to be part of the spy's arsenal. Just say no to Spy-derman.

[Mrs. Nesbitt]

Fortress Forever featuring Indiana Jones.

[XPelargos]

Originally Posted by KubeDawg

While ninja rope is the best tool in worms, it by no means needs to be part of the spy's arsenal. Just say no to Spy-derman.

I can't take anything seriously from you when you use the Arrow keys to move, backspace gren1, and + gren2.



But if we are focusing on movement vs fragging, then spy has no movement techniques while 2 defensive classes have movement techniques.

And I don't know how you could think a grapple is overpowered when conc nades let you do . . . . whatever the fuck you want.

Your response?

[KubeDawg]

Reminds me of hook mod for tfc, which was horrible all around. I'd rather the spy have some other skill/technique that helps with speed, maybe something similar to the assassins from Half Life/Black Mesa, but without the flips n shit.

[caesium]

I'm interested what people would say is their overall favourite game movement system excluding bhop?

For me it's Mario Kart: powersliding, shroom/pad/ramp-boosting, slipstreaming, gliding (plus spin-boosting and antigravity in MK8.)

[Bully]

Rocket jumping

[trepid_jon]

Trying to find what made TFC fun, picking and choosing, that's fine, but it's one mode. If Valve is remaking TFC, great. I doubt they are though.

We have nothing to lose starting with TFC as a base. We can start with classic mode and branch off any way we want, including a pure FF remake and/or an FF reimagining. If we start with FF as a base for the remake, which FF are we using? What are the features? What gets tweaked? Cut? Added? There's too much to figure out and we already know from 10 years of FF development that we'll never please everyone and in fact, most people will move along because they came here for this Fortresss experience but got that Fortress experience.

One thing I learned from FF the first go around is that we kinda worried too much about what Valve might have been doing with TF2 and we never gave people a chance to play a more familiar TF game, we just took people down the FF rabbit hole with the most intense tunnel vision possible.

Starting with a known base and expanding from there is exactly the right thing to do now just as much as it would have been the right thing to do 10 years ago.

[trepid_jon]

Also, as for movement and someone brought up Mario Kart, outrunning a red turtle shell in Super Mario Kart (not in this video but this is where I practiced doing it with my friends and family)

YouTube

YouTube

[FDA_Approved]

Originally Posted by trepid_jon

If we start with FF as a base for the remake, which FF are we using? What are the features? What gets tweaked? Cut? Added?

Would we use FF 1.0, 2.0 etc etc...


Ok then, which TFC do you remake? Uncapped bhop or current bhop? Super concs or current concs? Do you make it so I can shoot my ac faster the lower I put my fps? You can't just say FF isn't doable because it's gone through various patches. If you can use TFC as it is now, you can use FF as it is now.

We can start with classic mode and branch off any way we want, including a pure FF remake and/or an FF reimagining.

It baffles me how you think it's too confusing to sort out FF, but you come up with ideas like that. And that's exactly what I've been making a big deal out of the entire time.

Don't segregate the community like that. And don't just go forward making what ever as a base with the idea that you'll just make a new mode later to fit some niche.

Make one game and make it solid. Have a lot of map types, not a large variation of the core game mechanics.

[KubeDawg]

I like the movement in the Soul Calibur series that set it apart from traditional 2D fighters. That and the ability to parry attacks.

Metal Warriors on SNES was a game where each character had its own unique style all the way from weapons to design right down to the movement.

[Paft]

I don't quite understand what is going on here. How are you going to remake TFC on a different Engine? That alone means it isn't going to be TFC. You mean Fortress Forever 2.

My advice is tweak TFC. Sort the Pyro, bugs, make some new maps (or edit current maps), models, textures and whatever else on this custom GldSrc engine (or some other modded engine I don't know about) Custom match modes/options built in will be brilliant, like nade radius etc :
http://www.moddb.com/engines/xash3d-engine

YouTube

YouTube

But Valve wouldn't allow this, right? Since TFC isn't free.

[aleXtric]

i'm with you paft i have no idea what anyone here is talking about.

[trepid_jon]

Originally Posted by Paft

I don't quite understand what is going on here. How are you going to remake TFC on a different Engine? That alone means it isn't going to be TFC. You mean Fortress Forever 2.

The idea of "remaking TFC" is simply to give us a solid base.

We can put FF as it is now on Steam, and we will. But when we do that, it needs to be more obvious that FF right now is old and newer stuff is being made.

If someone said remake FF on Source 2, where would we start? 2.47? The amount of work that requires is what you might call...many much works. So why put in a whole lot of effort just to get what we have right now on Source 2? 2.47 isn't even the original vision of FF, so how are we even going to find developers to make it? I can promise you very few game developers want to make FF as it is now, but a lot of game developers get excited at the idea of making a classic mode and really just making FF2. But it doesn't need to be called FF2, because FF is forever...we don't need a sequel, just a continuation except without losing the ability to play current and old shit.

Personally, FF has never hit the mark for me. It's come close, but there's so much more I wanted to do, just like everyone else. Like with hunted, cz2, waterpolo. I mean, hunted, wow...hunted was supposed to be an epic multi-map campaign of sorts (sorta like wolfenstein enemy territory and also in hindsight about like L4D). We didn't have the time and resources to accomplish this back in the day, which is why so much of hunted appears obviously unfinished. Look at the tunnel where the civ and bodyguards spawn, that alone was supposed to be a lot more in terms of making the assassination stuff more apparent than basically just having a team of assassins. We wanted to start each round with a bang...literally a bang, as in a failed assassination attempt from various bombs, which is why that car is sideways (and is supposed to be all blown up except our modelers never got around to it) and the tunnel is collapsed. We added a story to hunted, like how Foantaire-Fey is an anagram for Area Fifty-One. Other levels in the campaign would be centered around the Foantaire-Fey facilities, like a machine line cloning civilians. Other levels were going to come after the "escape" through some sort of chase sequences and more locations. Tying everything together and adding depth was was our goal that wasn't ever fully realized, although there are still some hints and whatnot.

We just wanted to experiment with cool game ideas and make cool shit, and that's still what we want to do. It's really not that complicated. But all this maintenance work on FF is for the birds. I want to make awesome new shit, not tweak the sentry so much for no reason.

It's hard to experiment with things when everyone is all bitchy about wanting this feature in or out, and even more difficult to develop when people can't even respect the fact that we create this game for free in our free time and it took about a hundred people to create FF over many years. You'll have to excuse me if sometimes I don't give a shit about people trying to force me to make their version of TF when I haven't even gotten to make my version properly (cz2 and its mode are supposed to be so much more, we just ran out of time). You want a polar bear to pop out the HW's ass when a spy is near? Well learn how to make games and join the dev team, because I'm not making that. Or will I? haha

So with all that said, how do we move FF to a new engine in a timely fashion? Well, number one is don't worry about all the chaotic design that slowed us down the first time around and still slows us down now. Just "remake TFC" aka make a classic mode that's based on TFC as it is right now on Steam, so we don't have to worry about design as much and can just focus on the actual development. Yeah, fix the nail grenade, that's a given. Teleporters? Yes, TFC has teleporters. bhop cap? Yes, TFC has a bhop cap. "But old TFC didn't have a blah blah wah wah wah" who cares when we just focus on recreating what's there right now.

But what about options? Yes, let people disable/tweak teleporters, bhop cap, etc. I want to play a classic mode with and without bhop cap, with and without teleporters, and so forth. And I'm pretty sure everyone else would enjoy that as well, so if you whine about that idea then please just take a step back and learn how to not be such a negative douche.

There's this weird misconception that has existed in the FF community since a decade ago: don't provide options, it'll fragment the community. I have news for everyone who thinks that: FF is one tiny piece of the entire fragmented TF community and then FF itself is fragmented because FF now vs FF in 2007 vs the idea of FF in 2004...a lot of people never even gave FF a chance because of how it didn't suit their needs when it comes to a TF experience. Fragmentation inside fragmentation, fragminception. It's not about avoiding fragmentation, it's about connecting everything together so the fragmentation doesn't hurt anything and in fact it helps grow the community.

Instead of arguing about why your idea is better, you can just make it and put it on workshop, let the people play it and just shut up trying to convince everyone your tickle grenade is the best idea ever and all us devs need to make it asap. That doesn't mean ideas are ignored, before any of you shit bricks.

Anyways, yes we need to remake FF, but I guarantee everyone here that will never happen if we don't start with a proper base that's sort of protected from all the unfocused design and feature creeping.

All we have to do is choose an engine and start working on it. Right now, all we can really do is concept and design. Until we have a decision on the engine, we're kind of in dev limbo regarding the new new stuff. However, development on current FF can continue as always (as in slow as mole asses, and we all know how slow moles' asses are).

This thread is a good example of how FF development slows down. Instead of focusing on the important things, everyone starts letting their minds run wild with all sorts of scattered ideas. It's fine having all these ideas, except we don't even have a proper base to work those ideas off of.

Currently, the hold up on the engine selection is not knowing anything about Source 2 and the fact that we're not sure we want to ask all the devs to spend $20 per month for who knows how long on Unreal 4. Think about if we had all the FF devs ever still active today paying $20 per month for the engine since 2004. At the most (and reaching a bit) that's about $20,000. Fuck that shit.

So we wait for the engine before we can start developing nextgen FF. And by the way, it would indeed be nextgen, as in beyond xbone and ps4. However, by taking FF to a modern engine, we could put FF on xbone and ps4 and everything, we can go as multiplatform as we want. I love the idea of at least spectating FF on a mobile device. I also love the idea of playing FF on a steam machine in the living room. The question at that point would be which mode would you play? I'd probably mix it up, lil bit o classic, lil bit o FF, lil bit o whatever.

[Lynus]

Originally Posted by caesium

I'm interested what people would say is their overall favourite game movement system excluding bhop?

For me it's Mario Kart: powersliding, shroom/pad/ramp-boosting, slipstreaming, gliding (plus spin-boosting and antigravity in MK8.)

Mario 64 hands down

Also, not a fan of the grappling hook.

[FDA_Approved]

Originally Posted by KubeDawg

Reminds me of hook mod for tfc, which was horrible all around. I'd rather the spy have some other skill/technique that helps with speed, maybe something similar to the assassins from Half Life/Black Mesa, but without the flips n shit.

That's bullshit, you know it would be way better than the shitty hook mod. My only qualm is that it probly wouldn't take much skill, but then the results wouldn't be so powerful as to require a high skill ceiling. Even still there would be skill involved with chaining a small amount of hooks together (say two tops...) to get a sort of sling shot effect. It wouldn't really be over powered and it'd be a great amount of fun for the spy. Beyond movement it would also allow the spy to hide in harder to reach places which plays well into the whole sneaky spy thing.

It's a concept that could be picked up immediately by newer players, and also perfected by veterans with larger map/physics based knowledge. Which is the biggest bonus and kind of exactly what we're looking for.

[Headz]

ff_spyskillz map coming soon !! grapple posse make some noise in the area!

hook mod was addictive but unrefined, it would be worth adding as a server option in case for some reason it really borked game play

[GeoKill----->]

My favorite movement : Grenade jumping which I had to use with the spy.

As for hook for the spy. Treat it like a conc, you only have a limit number of times you can use it. This eliminates having to use grenades to reach certain places or move across the mid map.

[XPelargos]

Good point, Geo. Limited uses would be important.

And chain hooks could add some depth as FDA pointed out.

In terms of just fun movement in games, I liked Mirror's Edge.

And Mario Galaxy with all the cool gravity based rotational tricks you could do.

I doubt either of those would be 100% applicable to a fortress game, but wall running for some classes could be cool.