Next patch is in beta!

[Skanky Butterpuss]

Originally Posted by SoBe Green

I'm right. You are not. I'm not going to be swayed here. Give it up while you are ahead.

an attitude like that is definitely going to get you into beta! HURRY UP GUYZ, GIVE HIM TEH BETA!

and RE:

Originally Posted by cunnelatio

I'd play pyro more if the flamethrower had more pushback, definitely. Like, enough where you could start to see people using a pyro to cap flags, bunnyhopping backwards with the flamethrower going. It should have just enough pushback to allow you to hover, so you can clear gaps and combine it with a grenade jump for some jetpack action

this is how it used to be. but crafty pyros such as myself and Etzell owned the rest of the beta team on push many a time, so it was deemed too powerful and capped

[Green Mushy]

Originally Posted by AfterShock

I'm trying to think of ways I can combine the old and new functionality. I could make it so you only conc if you are actually moving over walk-speed, so if you wanted to juke, you could temporarily stop moving (or press the walk key) and allow the conc to go off. Would this be acceptable?

I think this is a great idea. I can press my Alt key no problem. Can u make it so it wont do the nooby conc if the walk button is pressed, and not have anything to do with speed? It would also look pretty foolish if ur walking to a flag.

[Dr.Satan]

Originally Posted by Bakez

This really isn't what I wanted to hear..

So will there be ANYTHING available in the next patch to aid new players?

There is now officially an entire team dedicated to perfecting the wiki. It's coming along very nicely. My suggestion would be to direct new players there if they have questions.

[SoBe Green]

I'm not trying to be in the beta.

I'll try 2.0 out but so far it looks like this is all going down hill now. The whole Pyro ordeal makes me question the entire team as a whole. Not a single gameplay improvement is in there other than the Demoman's blue pipes and maybe the Soldier. You are moving the Pyro backwards. "Hey lets tone down his damage so he can grenade jump better!" because thats all he could do in TFC. The game needs some severe balance or just remove the non clan play classes all together. The Scout jump pad...seriously why? Why should the fastest class in the game be sitting still to do...anything? Were any of these ideas thought out at all? None of it makes any sense. I've been very supportive of FF over the years but some of this just sounds so ridiculous.

[squeek.]

Originally Posted by SoBe Green

The Scout jump pad...seriously why? Why should the fastest class in the game be sitting still to do...anything? Were any of these ideas thought out at all? None of it makes any sense. I've been very supportive of FF over the years but some of this just sounds so ridiculous.

Yeah, god forbid things require teamwork on offense. If you want to have mobility as a pyro without taking damage, then get a scout on your team and have him throw down a jump pad. This patch will make offense more diverse in both league and pub play instead of the standard medic/scout/occasional other class. I see that as moving forward in the game as opposed to going backwards.

[Nezumi]

Things like the jump pad make me want to start participating in the beta more.

I'm just so busy with this interview process for a level design position at a certain company... [/brag]

So, er, my first reaction was 'Getting rid of caltrops?! Blasphemy!!' but then I remembered they weren't usefull. I think the radar should stay, but whatever balances.

I'm not sure about the pyros taking more flame damage now, I kinda liked the whole 'pyro meets pyro, they wave and go their separate ways' mechanic.

[AfterShock]

Originally Posted by SoBe Green

The whole Pyro ordeal makes me question the entire team as a whole.

We make 100 improvements and you don't like 1 and suddenly the dev team is incompetent. Thanks dude! "Pyro ordeal"? I'm not sure anyone but you thinks a slightly decrease in IC damage is an 'ordeal' since most of his damage comes from burn stacking and grenades. If you're playing solely with the IC then that would explain why you think the pyro is weak Try mixing it up and achieving burn 2 as soon as possible. If you already play this way then the reduction in IC damage won't affect you anyway.

Originally Posted by SoBe Green

Not a single gameplay improvement is in there other than the Demoman's blue pipes and maybe the Soldier.

So completely revamping the way 2 core defensive classes play isn't a big thing? I guess you also forgot about the HW overheat system revamp? That makes 3 defensive classes. Oh wait, we fixed SGs so their bullets have pushforce on the floor. Make that 4 defensive classes.

We could have fixed the soldier or HW alone and released it in a patch. They are both MASSIVE improvements.

'Not a single gameplay improvement' ? I'll quote a few of the major ones:

Originally Posted by AfterShock

• Medic throws medpacks for his teammates
• Snipers AR dmg has been reduced (and SR slightly)
• Nail grenades now own SGs like they should
• Demoman's pipetrap explosion radius fixed
• HWGuy has an entire new overheat system -> Another revamped class to the list!
• Pyros can actually kill other pyros now
• Spy disguise time has been dramatically reduced, knife damage is increased
• Bunny hop increased

Originally Posted by SoBe Green

The Scout jump pad...seriously why? Why should the fastest class in the game be sitting still to do...anything? Were any of these ideas thought out at all? None of it makes any sense. I've been very supportive of FF over the years but some of this just sounds so ridiculous.

If you read the thread I have patiently and accurately explained everything you are asking about. Have a little faith, try it out when we patch in a week or so, and then let me know if you still hate it.

In other news:

RE: Wall friction - this has now been fixed. Concajumpers rejoice! We've emulated the 'walls don't cause slowdown' ala TFC, so concmaps should be playable again.

RE: Pyro flamepush: his flamepush cap has been increased so you can flame-run faster. His vertical velocity push has been increased so you can gain a little extra height after an IC jump with it by pointing straight down.

Other stuff: SG aiming on a slope bug; has been fixed now. Pyro + soldier specials are now quickswitches between IC/FT and RPG/shotgun. Other various stuff has gone in, woot!

[Adamido]

^Up
Did soldier needed any fix lol? He's OP now, dont change him into dominating class again.

[Agent Buckshot Moose]

Originally Posted by Adamido

^Up
Did soldier needed any fix lol? He's OP now, dont change him into dominating class again.

I wouldn't say he's overpowered now, but I don't really think he needed any buffs. I've played against plenty of good Soldiers. Guess we'll see how it plays out...

[SoBe Green]

Was the point not to get the Pyro away from having to rely on spam and nades to get a kill? Without napalms a Pyro is useless. That means that if I see more than 2-4 players on the opposing team I need to go restock or just suicide.

The SG isn't class balance to me and to be honest I haven't touched the HW since release due to the fact nobody has made him worth a damn yet. Seems you all wanted to increase the speed of the game but leave the HW the same. Just as pointless as he has ever been.

You can call it teamwork but I call it one guy having the shit job of playing scout for an entire map doing nothing but building jump pads and getting owned. Thats a great idea! Now we have two classes that just build things and then do nothing! Three if you count the Pyro. Lets add the ability to build lawn chairs you can give it to the Pyro and we'll leave playing the game to the Medic, Soldier, and Demo. Where is the Spy you ask? Oh he is cloaked so he isn't going to be able to show up for about an hour...slow running speed without a time limit and all that.

I'll play 2.0 like I said but some of this just sounds too off the wall to make sense of.

[Rutabeggar]

Originally Posted by SoBe Green

Was the point not to get the Pyro away from having to rely on spam and nades to get a kill? Without napalms a Pyro is useless. That means that if I see more than 2-4 players on the opposing team I need to go restock or just suicide.

The SG isn't class balance to me and to be honest I haven't touched the HW since release due to the fact nobody has made him worth a damn yet. Seems you all wanted to increase the speed of the game but leave the HW the same. Just as pointless as he has ever been.

You can call it teamwork but I call it one guy having the shit job of playing scout for an entire map doing nothing but building jump pads and getting owned. Thats a great idea! Now we have two classes that just build things and then do nothing! Three if you count the Pyro. Lets add the ability to build lawn chairs you can give it to the Pyro and we'll leave playing the game to the Medic, Soldier, and Demo. Where is the Spy you ask? Oh he is cloaked so he isn't going to be able to show up for about an hour...slow running speed without a time limit and all that.

I'll play 2.0 like I said but some of this just sounds too off the wall to make sense of.

Sounds to me like you are generalizing things about the patch without even trying it. This mod was in a BAD way for a LONG time after release, I think you should take a second and be grateful the Dev. team kept trying to tweak the game to bring people in. Sure, criticism comes with the territory, but before even trying it? Give me a break.

[Desyphur]

Sobe...Pyro is awesome. He's always been a "spammy" class. Scout is still awesome, he has to sit still for a second while a jump pad comes out, oh no. The spy? Oh he's not cloaked...HE'S USING THE SCOUTS JUMP PAD.

[squeek.]

Originally Posted by SoBe Green

Was the point not to get the Pyro away from having to rely on spam and nades to get a kill? Without napalms a Pyro is useless. That means that if I see more than 2-4 players on the opposing team I need to go restock or just suicide.

The SG isn't class balance to me and to be honest I haven't touched the HW since release due to the fact nobody has made him worth a damn yet. Seems you all wanted to increase the speed of the game but leave the HW the same. Just as pointless as he has ever been.

You can call it teamwork but I call it one guy having the shit job of playing scout for an entire map doing nothing but building jump pads and getting owned. Thats a great idea! Now we have two classes that just build things and then do nothing! Three if you count the Pyro. Lets add the ability to build lawn chairs you can give it to the Pyro and we'll leave playing the game to the Medic, Soldier, and Demo. Where is the Spy you ask? Oh he is cloaked so he isn't going to be able to show up for about an hour...slow running speed without a time limit and all that.

I'll play 2.0 like I said but some of this just sounds too off the wall to make sense of.

It's quite obvious you are REALLY out of touch with how FF plays currently in a league setting. Scouts are useful and are used (successfully) in pickups all the time. The jump pad will just add something that the scout does once every couple deaths in order to help his teammates tremendously. Something that isn't used is heavy offense. This patch will change that.

[mixer]

Originally Posted by SoBe Green

I'm not trying to be in the beta.

I'll try 2.0 out but so far it looks like this is all going down hill now.

same here ...

it looks like the soldier as the 'holy cow' is restored, same crap as in other tf-incarnations.
Pyro made useless again, and the sentry weakened ... i just dont get it.
It may turn out as a good clan-play balance as only upper10%-players are in the beta-testeam me thinks. On the pubs a single rushing offplayer will require a complete def-setup to slow-down the cappings, not think about keeping it clean. Its the emphasis of the offence-classes that annoys me. On the pubs you have like doubledigit-cap counts on every map already, and it will rather get worse as the solys will used in offence again. Im pessimistic but as it sounds its not my TF anymore ...

[squeek.]

Originally Posted by mixer

same here ...

it looks like the soldier as the 'holy cow' is restored, same crap as in other tf-incarnations.
Pyro made useless again, and the sentry weakened ... i just dont get it.
It may turn out as a good clan-play balance as only upper10%-players are in the beta-testeam me thinks. On the pubs a single rushing offplayer will require a complete def-setup to slow-down the cappings, not think about keeping it clean. Its the emphasis of the offence-classes that annoys me. On the pubs you have like doubledigit-cap counts on every map already, and it will rather get worse as the solys will used in offence again. Im pessimistic but as it sounds its not my TF anymore ...

The soldier buff isn't huge. At all. The pyro 'nerf' isn't huge. At all. The SG is getting reworked, not weakened.

And, everything is being tested.

You guys are masters of overreaction.

[StinkyTaco]

I think you guys are doing a great job

Hope to see some new maps in the next release.

[shadow]

Originally Posted by SoBe Green

You can call it teamwork but I call it one guy having the shit job of playing scout for an entire map doing nothing but building jump pads and getting owned. Thats a great idea! Now we have two classes that just build things and then do nothing! Three if you count the Pyro. Lets add the ability to build lawn chairs you can give it to the Pyro and we'll leave playing the game to the Medic, Soldier, and Demo. Where is the Spy you ask? Oh he is cloaked so he isn't going to be able to show up for about an hour...slow running speed without a time limit and all that.

Shit job? Damn you must be doing something wrong.
I hate to play anything other than scout.
(except demo, but grr...)

[Hammock]

Originally Posted by mixer

same here ...

it looks like the soldier as the 'holy cow' is restored, same crap as in other tf-incarnations.
Pyro made useless again, and the sentry weakened ... i just dont get it.
It may turn out as a good clan-play balance as only upper10%-players are in the beta-testeam me thinks. On the pubs a single rushing offplayer will require a complete def-setup to slow-down the cappings, not think about keeping it clean. Its the emphasis of the offence-classes that annoys me. On the pubs you have like doubledigit-cap counts on every map already, and it will rather get worse as the solys will used in offence again. Im pessimistic but as it sounds its not my TF anymore ...

What game are you playing? Pubs ending up with double digit scores the majority of time? Man in my experience the games either end up in a stalemate because it's DvD, or it's a blow out because 1 team has a few strong offensive runners.

Its the emphasis of the offence-classes that annoys me

If by offense class you mean scout with the jump pad.... By all interpretation this jump pad is designed for a strong offensive class to work together with his slower teammates who might want to run offense but get tired of either being picked off leaving the base, or get's tired of the long run. Since the scout has 3 concs upon spawn, he doesn't need it, we all know this, but his teammates could sure use it that's for sure.

Pyro made useless again

So you've played the FF 2.0 pyro then to give us your conculsion on the matter? Or are you just making a random assumption based off of what's been said, and other people's general complaints? Other people I might add who also probably haven't played the FF 2.0 pyro.

[bokko]

What glads me the most is that there is finally someone passionate about the game leading the development. After the release of TF2 and FF there seemed to be a general lack of direction.

Personally I like the new changes in theory and look forward to the release of 2.0. I have doubts about some things(Won't attacking medics just cover their defending teammates in medpacks as they spawn?) but the changes seem to be well though out and taking the mod in the right direction from my point of view.

I cannot believe some people are making a big fuss about the friggin caltrops. Can't comment on the pyro thing, but this was never a big problem before.
And everytime Sobe goes off on one of his rants we are reminded of why he will never be a beta tester.

[Bakez]

Originally Posted by Dr.Satan

There is now officially an entire team dedicated to perfecting the wiki. It's coming along very nicely. My suggestion would be to direct new players there if they have questions.

I thought it was generally accepted that just having tutorials, manuals etc on an external site or in forum threads really wasn't good enough? People simply don't check the forums or the wiki, they need to be on the main menu in game. I've been on a server quite a few times and been trying to teach people to conc or whatever and when I ask if they have watched the tutorials the answer is 'what tutorials?'.