Team Fortress 2

[PsYcNeT]

TF2's failure/success is not up to us.

It's up to Valve's ability to put out an engaging and playable game that while changing enough to become different, still maintains enough awesomeness to be fun and playable within it's own right.

That, and that alone will dictate it's success.

That said, I really liked your post Sizable, don't mind Puppychow, he's just old and curmudgeonly.

(I mean really puppychow, he's 14, and most 14 year olds couldn't muster that much coherence in a 5 paragraph english essay, let alone a non-formal letter)

[Ozzy]

I think people need to realise Valve's track record here - have they ever put out a game/mod that wasn't absolutely top drawer?

• HL1
• HL2
• TFC (yes I know, not strictly their game)
• CS (not to everyone's taste, but you can't deny how popular it was/is)
• DoD

Let's face it, Valve KNOWS how to make fantastic games. I see no reason why they would suddenly balls everything up with TF2.

So they've taken out grenades, big deal, one of the major complaints with TFC was the spam from grenades and how the majority of kills were a result of large splash damage from them. Did you ever think that getting rid of them might bring back some actual skill in using RPG's, shotguns etc. and mean average players can't get by simply with tossing grenades left, right and centre?

Only 5 maps with release - erm, that's probably a good thing. Think back to when you first picked up TFC. If each server was playing 10 maps on rotation it would take ages for the first map you played to come back on rotation again. Being swamped by so many new maps at once mean players never get chance to learn the layouts properly and so lose interest. This would be a bad thing.

Make no mistake, Valve needs something to draw in new players. Catering to the existing TFC crowd alone will result in a player base of such tiny size that they may as well have not bothered. TF2 (and FF for that matter) NEED new players if the games are to have any success or longevity at all.

I for one am eagerly anticipating TF2's release (and FF of course ). I want it to be different to TFC. I played that game for three years, and then have barely touched it in the last five. It needs a new spark to reignite the interest again.

Make no mistake, as different as the game might be it will still retain all the elements that made TFC such a great game in the first place. Different doesn't mean worse, it just means different.

[ekiM]

Originally Posted by Robin Walker

The Scout has become a serious
combat class, in the right hands (i.e. skilled enough) being dangerous enough to kill soldiers, pyros, and even heavies

Hurrah for class differentiation! Now every class is a combat class! How diverse!

Of course, Valve also told us that the pyro didn't need buffing in TFC because one of their testers raped everyone else with it. So I'd take anything they say about gameplay with a pinch of salt.

[GhOsT]

Originally Posted by puppychow

i am shocked that anyone responded to your immature email.

I was thinking the same thing while reading it. That just goes to show you that they actually do care about their fans. Gabe could've easily forwarded the profanity filled rant to the deleted items folder.

[puppychow]

maybe poorly written was a better word to use. just sorta made me cringe.

[Spanky]

while not to the same extent as everyone else, i am kind of upset about removing grenades. Out of the FPSs ive played i can not think of one that never had frags. If you want to see horrible frag spam play on a titan map on BF2142, as a support class you can resuplly yourself and team mates and it rains frags. At worst frags should only be made selectable, but definatly not removed.

[SizeableSSonic]

Well, I can see where they were going with the grenades, at least a little bit.. although I don't understand they they didn't just redesign the grenades, instead of pulling them out altogether. However, the other thing about the grenades is something more general, in that I feel more restricted, so to speak. It would like there was less I could do.

One thing I would really like to know is with them adding a double jump to the Scout, I wonder what they will be doing in regard to bunny hopping and such.

As for my email, I won't deny that I went overboard. It was 9:00, and I had a ton of home work ahead of me, so I wasn't in that good a mood. I responded to thank him for replying, and apologized for my language. Not to mention my original email was full of spelling errors.

[mervaka]

you have balls, kid.

[yank]

i'm surprised he replied back to you. the whole "nerfing of classes" you mentioned is meant to distinguish them, not make them equal. removing grenades is a big part of that idea, as grenades were more of a common factor amongst all the classes.

[Jiggles]

I like everything I've seen so far, save for the sentry guns -- I think they could use a little more "personality"

The Medic kinda sounds like Command and Conquer: Renegade's Engineer (with his repair gun). In C&C:R, the Engy was sniper-bait -- I wonder if the medic will have the same liability in TF2

[puppychow]

jail bait?

[mistermojo]

Originally Posted by Ozzy

I think people need to realise Valve's track record here - have they ever put out a game/mod that wasn't absolutely top drawer?

• HL1
• HL2
• TFC (yes I know, not strictly their game)
• CS (not to everyone's taste, but you can't deny how popular it was/is)
• DoD

Let's face it, Valve KNOWS how to make fantastic games. I see no reason why they would suddenly balls everything up with TF2.

lol

HL1 - Ok, I'll give you that one
HL2 - Fun game, really overrated because of the engine
TFC- Not Valve's game
CS - Not Valve's game
DoD - Not Valve's game

Let's see what happened when Valve worked on the Source sequels:

CS:S - Simplified game, more newbie friendly, not nearly as fun as CS
DoD:S - Worse than DoD, no real DoD player takes it seriously

[ekiM]

Good point on CS:S and DOD:S. I know TF2 isn't TFC:S, but that's not too warped an analogy.

[K9-Cop]

Originally Posted by mistermojo

lol

HL1 - Ok, I'll give you that one
HL2 - Fun game, really overrated because of the engine
TFC- Not Valve's game
CS - Not Valve's game
DoD - Not Valve's game

Let's see what happened when Valve worked on the Source sequels:

CS:S - Simplified game, more newbie friendly, not nearly as fun as CS
DoD:S - Worse than DoD, no real DoD player takes it seriously

I don't think HL2 is overrated. Here's a quick checklist:

Good engine.
Good sound.
Wide variety of environments.
Wide variety of engagements.
Slightly above average story line (a little over-simplified I think, not as expansive in some ways as HL1).
Average length for a typical fps (significantly less than HL1).
Good price (especially on-line in advance).

Basically, by today's standards, its a star game and deserves the accolades. I think the problem is we have higher standards for Valve (read: HL1), and by that measure HL2 is a letdown and overrated.

CS - I still do not understand how people can play cs, then play cs:s, then go back and play cs and say that one is more fun than the other. For crying out loud, they're the same game! lol, I apologize if I offend.

DoD - No "real" DoD player would love DoD:S because DoD:S is pretty much a completely different game. Its fast-paced run-and-gun action compared to the more tactical pace of original Dod. And such are the complaints of Dod:S: "its not tactical enough", "all people do is run-and-gun." Does that make DoD:S a bad game? Again, I don't think so. I'd call it an average multi-player game made slightly above average because of the graphics its engine provides.

Overall, I think the only real issue with CS:S/DoD:S is Valve's choice of hitbox algorithm. I think that in an attempt to make things easier for the newb they've added too much randomness to a good players game, which takes away from the fun. So on that point, yes, cs is more fun.

[Circuitous]

Quite enjoyed DoD:S...

[mistermojo]

Originally Posted by K9-Cop

I don't think HL2 is overrated. Here's a quick checklist:

Good engine.
Good sound.
Wide variety of environments.
Wide variety of engagements.
Slightly above average story line (a little over-simplified I think, not as expansive in some ways as HL1).
Average length for a typical fps (significantly less than HL1).
Good price (especially on-line in advance).

Basically, by today's standards, its a star game and deserves the accolades. I think the problem is we have higher standards for Valve (read: HL1), and by that measure HL2 is a letdown and overrated.

CS - I still do not understand how people can play cs, then play cs:s, then go back and play cs and say that one is more fun than the other. For crying out loud, they're the same game! lol, I apologize if I offend.

So an above average game should have a 96% average score? There's only 2-3 games that have a higher score than that across all systems. It shouldn't have been above a 90%.

Also, the difference is huge: Hitboxes, hit detection, walking and running speed, grenades, maps, wallshooting, movement, the entire game feels better in 1.6

[tu!]

Originally Posted by mistermojo

lol

HL1 - Ok, I'll give you that one
HL2 - Fun game, really overrated because of the engine
TFC- Not Valve's game
CS - Not Valve's game
DoD - Not Valve's game

Let's see what happened when Valve worked on the Source sequels:

CS:S - Simplified game, more newbie friendly, not nearly as fun as CS
DoD:S - Worse than DoD, no real DoD player takes it seriously

agree w/ everything. dead on about hl2 being overrated and cs:s and dod:s being newbiefied versions of the original versions.

[GhOsT]

Originally Posted by mistermojo

lol

HL1 - Ok, I'll give you that one
HL2 - Fun game, really overrated because of the engine
TFC- Not Valve's game
CS - Not Valve's game
DoD - Not Valve's game

Let's see what happened when Valve worked on the Source sequels:

CS:S - Simplified game, more newbie friendly, not nearly as fun as CS
DoD:S - Worse than DoD, no real DoD player takes it seriously

Sorry, but TFC is Valve's game. They hired the creators of TF and they were the ones who made TFC while working for Valve. It's nothing like CS and DoD, which were independant mods that Valve bought and then started distributing.

[Ping Chow Chi]

How did they dumb-down CS by the way, from the little I have played of it there was hardly anything to do in the first place.

I'm a bit 'hummmmm' on the whole interview, some bits sound nice, some sound not so nice. I guess I will have to wait to see how it plays out though before making my decision.

I do feel that TF does need more than a lick of paint and the patching up of a few cracks to make it popular again though, maybe this will work, maybe not.

And thats me, placed firmly on the fence

[Stephen]

Hi Ping! \o/

I absolutely loved HL2 and think it does deserve all the praise it gets. I enjoy CSS, but only the gungame mod. Regular CS/S sucks penis. I enjoyed DoD:S too but haven't played it in ages.

TF2 sounds like great fun, but FF sounds like even more fun to me. I will be playing them both. Buying TF2 is a no-brainer for me, cos I want Ep 2 and Portal really badly as well anyway.