ff_dev_2fort

[KubeDawg]

Originally Posted by Lost

Having no 2fort on release wouldn't have been a problem if no one had leaked the dev version. The only reason it made a problem is because its an exact port of the original 2fort, same shitty gameplay, same shitty design and the same people that play 2fort 24/7 in TFC are the ones playint dev_2fort 24/7 in FF.

Really, don't support it, it's not a mod killing map but it does reduce the effort that everyone puts into their maps by making an old, crappy, out of date box-in-a-valley map the most played.

Crossover2 and Badlands were by far much better Valve maps but they are harder to defend. 2fort is so popular because it isn't; it is very easy to defend, a 10 man defense is impregnable unless you have a 10 man offense on the other team. There's a little bit of action for everyone, snipers can pwn snipers, fatties can bridge DM other fatties, while engies, demomen and soldiers turtle it up in their base.

I think the access changes Valve made to 2fort in ctf_2fort would make it a good FF map. I also noticed that it is one of the lesser played default maps, being harder to defend than it used to be. There is still plenty of action to be had but you can't just hole up and camp the base, someone with a group will tear it all apart with ease.

You're opinion baffles me. 2fort IS and will always BE the most POPULAR map in the realm of TFC/FF. Crossover, meh, it was decent until it was completely remade. What happened to the bridge above the water in the middle and the demoman area to blow up? Everything was changed it seems in that map. A direct port of crossover2, mixed with hl2 source quality textures will make for an excellent gameplay because people are already used to the map.

Seriously though, Who cares if it was a shitty map, who cares if it was spam central and everyone was tasting it? IF IT WORKS, PEOPLE WILL COME. Don't go about changing things to the map unless you realize it's already an excellent map that attracts A LOT of people to it... Nade spam is inevitible. Campers are inevitible. That pesky pyro that follows you throughout your base killing you with his flamethrower while you're trying to find health is inevitible. Look at what makes the game, not what you think could improve the game. TFC used to be the 2nd biggest online multiplayer game aside from CS at one point in time.

And although I love a huge vast awesomeness variety of maps, such as rock2, warpath, flagrun, epicenter, etc, releasing the 2 most known/popular maps out there(2fort and well) is the best thing to do. Don't just assume it's a shitty map because you think so. Get the word from the people first if you are having trouble deciding what maps to port first.

[greenday5494]

i agree. i dont think its shitty. but, i dont get the same structure and chaos that i get from 2fort, when i play on Drippy's. people dont really snipe, noone doing stuff in the water, etc.

and, people will come if its in the game. do you care what people are playing as long as they are playing YOUR game? NO!


get that map out, and SPREAD THE FREAKIN WORD!!!!!!!!
tell people about FF, we need PR!

[Foxtrick]

Crossover2 is an excellent CTF map in TFC. For years it was renound for the tough agility needed to dodge defence and double conc out of there. Otherthan that, the trials of taking up the stairway and out of the base.

My personal opinion is the FF version is not so good(not to say bad0. I have issues bothering with the map at all. As the base yard just seems awkward to play in/around - which to me was a big attraction. Theres seemingly no feeling of being able to DM there. The NML I find really frustrating to actually use. Compared to.. again.. the TFC version. Anyway we are not meant to be talkinga bout this! just 2fort(dev)

[mervaka]

one thing i really dont understand here - is FF too similar or too different from TFC? what staggers me is there's arguents from both sides of the fence over this. how do you respond to strong opposing views?

[Credge]

Originally Posted by mervaka

one thing i really dont understand here - is FF too similar or too different from TFC? what staggers me is there's arguents from both sides of the fence over this. how do you respond to strong opposing views?

People that haven't played FF will say that they are either too similar or too different. People that they they are the same haven't played it at all. People that say they are too different don't understand the change in BHop/conc mechanics.

To be honest, FF has just enough of TFC in it to make it a true TF game while changing some core mechanics (speed, BHop, concing, conc aim, etc) enough to make it something new.

People on both sides of the fence, in regards to it being similar/different, haven't played the game... or at least haven't played it for more than 5 minutes.

[KubeDawg]

Originally Posted by mervaka

one thing i really dont understand here - is FF too similar or too different from TFC? what staggers me is there's arguents from both sides of the fence over this. how do you respond to strong opposing views?

You compromise as best you can. You're not going to please everyone. That's why making TFC maps physically different is bad, because there are too many people who want something they already know. I understand how one could think, "But what about the newcomers? THEY'RE EXPOSED TO SPAM O NOES!!!11one"

I say to that, I've been playing TFC for over 8 years, and I started out on maps such as 2fort(well actually the first map I ever played was casbah -_-) and well. I had to deal with all the spammers and such, and it's not that difficult to get used to a map like 2fort... It's a fun map. I played most of my matches on it, or shutdown2, or openfire. Who knew such a basic map could be so popular?

So, again, compromise... See what you can do to let people know it obviously will be upgraded, but to what extent? To lose the TFC veterans because 1 or 2 devs thought the map sucked and decided either not to port it over or to change it? The people who have been following FF since I don't know when have no voice in this matter? You've got the newcomers who haven't had a chance to see what TFC is all about, and what better map than 2fort to start out on? I'm a simple man, and maybe it's just my nature, but keep eye candy for those who want a dull game, and keep what works, the functionality of it, and people will follow it because:

GAMEPLAY OVER GRAPHICS ANY DAY OF THE WEEK.

[[AE] 82694]

Thanks for the go ahead mervaka will discontinue ff_2fort with the ff_2fort release.

[Lost]

Originally Posted by KubeDawg

You're opinion baffles me. 2fort IS and will always BE the most POPULAR map in the realm of TFC/FF.

Its the most popular because its simple, not because its a good map.

All of your opinions in both of your posts revolve around you wanting ports of the original maps, not FF maps. Just a copy and paste of the original to play with in FF. There were far better maps that circulated in the community but because you have to hunt for them now or people don't want to bother with custom map servers, they don't get played. If FF had been made with people your mindset then we would have TFC:Source, not FF. What sense does it make to spend all that time on a mod and just end up copying the maps, flaws and all?

Originally Posted by KubeDawg

To lose the TFC veterans because 1 or 2 devs thought the map sucked and decided either not to port it over or to change it?

You try to point out that the longtime followers of FF were ignored because one or two devs. I don't think you've been around that long if you even vaguely believe your own words, especially since FF was created by TFC vets. Something a longtime FF follower would know just by reading the random babble on the forums.

And I assume 2fort is a shitty map because I assume it is. Hence, me assuming. Me, not you. And yeah, I've played it a few times.

[Credge]

Originally Posted by Lost

And I assume 2fort is a shitty map because I assume it is. Hence, me assuming. Me, not you. And yeah, I've played it a few times.

It's fact. 2fort is a shitty map. Terrible, terrible map.

[Dr.Uudge]

Originally Posted by mervaka

one thing i really dont understand here - is FF too similar or too different from TFC? what staggers me is there's arguents from both sides of the fence over this. how do you respond to strong opposing views?

Hmmm. Well, on the faq page, under "about" it says that FF is not a strict port from tfc, which sort of implies that the similarities would be many.

Perhaps a direct answer might clear the issue, such as: "FF combines features of previous TF mods, while also adding interpretations of those features, as well as new ones, based on gameplay balance, functionality, and overall feel of the fast paced TF mods we have come to love. This includes features from TFC. However, features that were not from TFC, but from other mods, such as the pyro incindiary cannon jump, trimping, weapon disguising for spies, as well as others, are implimented, and therefore as the player becomes more and more accustomed to the nuances of FF, the distinction between FF and previous TF mods become more significant and noticeable."

Something like that i think might clear some of the issues, especially if there's a list of features that are not from TFC, but from other mods, or new ones that were included, so that TFmod players, TFC players, and newcomers can see where/how the ideas came together.

[richard nixon]

I think it's funny that some of the servers that are "24/7 dev_2fort" are now empty. I had them in my favorites, and there was around 6 of them that all say ff_dev_2fort with zero players. I like all maps but sometimes I'm in the mood for 2fort.

Either people are tired of 2fort already or they want a real FF style 2fort. Or they went to play Tf2

[Stankyfingers]

Well when you have only 4 servers that get close full it dosnt matter what the other servers are running there isnt enough players to fill anything.And to boot 1 of those 4 servers has 2fort on it and it stays full when it rotates to that map.If there was any kind of player base 2fort servers would stay full just like they did when there were players to fill the servers.I counted under 90 players at 9pm est and thats not taking into consideration the player count spoofing thats going on on some servers to trick you into joining.

Right now folks you should try ANYTHING to get players to play FF.Try porting old maps and see if it helps.Right now im hardly even playing FF untill we get hunted ported over.Just not enough people playing the maps I like to have fun.Then out of those 4 servers that actually have people on them 1 is clan rules so that narrows it down even more.
If you took half the effort that goes into the negativity and bitching that goes on in these forums and used it to promote this game it might actually have players playing it.
And a side note, if you want people to play the new maps dont make them so big that they crash for half the people who play.The FF hunted map is bs cause it crashes so many people.And I just played a new fortress map that looked great and would be cool but It crashed for alot of people(including me).There are enough bugs and problems to over come,dont make a map that is going to add to it.

[Foxtrick]

I'm suprised people complain about 2fort so aggresively.. (back OT compared to my prev. post). Its.. as already said - just really simple. I found it as great in public play as Well, and others. Due to it being a short in length map, it relied alot on speed and agility - excellent for practicing anything.. as opposed to Well where reaction times you can afford to be alittle slow.

[public_slots_free]

the game needs an exact copy of 2fort. That is what people who still play TFC play so you absolutely need it in FF. I don't really understand how this game even came out at all without 2fort. You do much better giving the players the option to play a shitty map then not giving them the option at all. Personally, I like 2fort and was very happy to play it even with the "bland" textures.

[KubeDawg]

Especially if it only takes a simple 'copy' & 'paste' to do it like you said, Lost.

[Dr.Uudge]

As soon as flagrun, crazycarl's flagrun-style map, and casbah is up, i'm gonna be all on that like a dog on peanut butter. BARRON! YOU GOTTA GET THE HALLSOFIGANTS MAP RUNNING! YOU MUST! I'M SUFFOCATING ON THE CLAUSTROPHOBIC MAPS! UNREAL MAPS WERE ENOURMOUS!

[greenday5494]

please, lets not be another q3TF/Q4TF. we need the word spreaded, and out, TELL PEOPLE ABOUT IT!

[KubeDawg]

Originally Posted by Dr.Uudge

As soon as flagrun, crazycarl's flagrun-style map, and casbah is up, i'm gonna be all on that like a dog on peanut butter. BARRON! YOU GOTTA GET THE HALLSOFIGANTS MAP RUNNING! YOU MUST! I'M SUFFOCATING ON THE CLAUSTROPHOBIC MAPS! UNREAL MAPS WERE ENOURMOUS!

Just wait till the low grav servers start popping up. Then we can port over that one map from that one game where you're in space. ok, it's UT, but I forgot the map name...

[Dospac]

Opposing worlds ftw.

[Chips]

Originally Posted by mervaka

one thing i really dont understand here - is FF too similar or too different from TFC? what staggers me is there's arguents from both sides of the fence over this. how do you respond to strong opposing views?

FF is just different enough to give the TFC player the familiarity that they desired coupled with a new learning curve. A long time TFC player myself, I fully expected TFC:Source when this mod was first announced. I'm glad it didn't turn out that way. I personally love it...you've all done an outstanding job, considering what you got paid to do it.

The TFC community, in my opinion, owes the dev staff their gratitude and thanks. Tell the bitchers and complainers to spend a couple of years of their life doing what you talented folks did before they bitch and complain. I'm sure they'd see things in a whole new light. THIS...is the game I wanted to see...kudos to you all.

That said...2fort, love it or leave it...is Mom's apple pie of the TFC world. Even if you hate it, you'll play it. You know every inch of the map, every conc, every rocket jump...you know almost exactly where everyone will be when you go in that base. THAT'S the challenge.

I run the Chip's Fun House TFC community; 3 1/2 years old now. 2fort has always been, and always will be in our rotation. We run 12 alternating CTF and ADL maps in our rotation. 2fort is the only map that has never come out of that rotation among our 280 maps on our server. When a map breaks (cornfield doors...etc), my admins are instructed to put on 2fort. When the server is emptying due to a crappy map selection, my admins are instructed to put on 2fort. If my server is empty when I join...you guessed it...I put on 2fort and within 10 minutes, I have a near full server.

When I first loaded up ff_2fort after installing my server and client (yes, it was the first map I went for), I found myself stuck in a small black room with text all over the walls. I spent 10 minutes looking around for a secret or something to figure out how to launch the actual map. I slumped in my chair when I realized...there wasn't one.

Whether you want to believe it or not, whether you like it or not...2fort is the map that put TFC on the map, no pun intended. It's an absolute MUST for the old school players. Build it, and believe me, they will come.