[o-t] and Fortress Forever

[o_etzell]

I'm reminded of the Aqua Teen Hunger Force episode "Gee Whiz", where they have a Standards and Practices commerical, explaining what's OK, and what isn't. They shoot a nun in the head, and a blood fountain results. That's NOT ok, but when they replace the bloodspray with a rainbow, it's fine.

Here it is.

[Defrag]

Thanks for the offer; it's better if you shoot us an email for this kinda of stuff, though

[o_[o-t] scuzzy]

Originally Posted by Defrag

Thanks for the offer; it's better if you shoot us an email for this kinda of stuff, though

Yeah, I apologize again for the public forum. I'll carbon the first part and send it to fortressforever@gmail.com.

Thanks.

Scuzzy

[o_digital_ghost]

Originally Posted by Circuitous

My point is, I don't think hearing the word "fuck" (let alone seeing it) is any more traumatizing than watching someone explode. Now, rampant swearing, derogatory slurs, etc., I can see that getting you kicked/banned, but when it's a little slip-up and you get an hour's time-out for it it's sorta silly. S'all I'm sayin'.

Now, I respect that they have the rule, it's their server and they can run it as they please, but that doesn't mean I can't point out what I think is wrong with it - and at least I'm not pointing it out by joining and swearing up a storm, which is a really ridiculous way to do things.

But anyway, yeah, do you guys tone down the violence at all or is that stuff cool beans?

Thing is they dont get a time out on thier first offence. its a 3 strike rule. The system we have set up will automaticlly slay you the first 2 times you swear, on the 3rd time it will give you a 30min time out. Far as anyone cursing over the mic we'l just remind them that watch what they say because kids play there, and if we can avoid subjecting them to that stuff we will. 99% of the time they are ok with it.

Another way we look at it is, we don't want parents of some of these kids thinking that they learn swearing from video games either. There are enough people who try to blame games for everything rather then take responsibility for themselves.

[o_[o-t] scuzzy]

Originally Posted by Circuitous

My point is, I don't think hearing the word "fuck" (let alone seeing it) is any more traumatizing than watching someone explode. Now, rampant swearing, derogatory slurs, etc., I can see that getting you kicked/banned, but when it's a little slip-up and you get an hour's time-out for it it's sorta silly. S'all I'm sayin'.

Now, I respect that they have the rule, it's their server and they can run it as they please, but that doesn't mean I can't point out what I think is wrong with it - and at least I'm not pointing it out by joining and swearing up a storm, which is a really ridiculous way to do things.

But anyway, yeah, do you guys tone down the violence at all or is that stuff cool beans?

Quick correction: As for a a slip-up causing an hour's time-out that is not the case. When someone swears in the game the server slays them and tells them if they continue a short-term ban will occur. If they do so again on the same map it will slay them again, and provide the second warning. If they do so again that is when the short term ban gets activated. That has been a pretty fair policy, plenty of warnings, and has worked quite well for us. I agree with your accessment on racism, that gets a perm ban in the [o-t] environment.

I can understand why you believe that since the game is physically gory that the language and conversational content should match. I appreciate that you believe this is an adverse policy. We just disagree. I don't think debating the rule would really get us anywhere though. You've expressed your opinion here (and not by joining and swearing up a storm which we appreciate) and I've explained a bit about our rules. We can agree to disagree.

Scuzzy

[mervaka]

what are cashews, anyone?

NUTS

*ban*

[o_nodnarb]

you hear cusswords elsewhere, and if the parents are really worried about all the gore they can turn the blood nd gibs off.

[o_mooga]

SCUZZY!
Holly Sh*t!
I haven't been on the [o-t] forums or servers for a long time but i must say they are the BEST TFC servers I've ever played on.

I acsidently clicked on the wrong area of the foums and am plesently suprized to see a message from the old timers!

Are 3D, Obi, and Roger still active?
I should stop by the forums again. I stoped posting because you guys kept chaning systems every few months. :-\

[Circuitous]

To Scuzzy, 'cuz quotes are gettin' too big:

Okay, slightly more forgiving policy, I can appreciate that a little more, although I still think anti-swearing's silly. But like I said, it works for you guys, and I ain't gonna change that.

Still, I fail to see how a simple word (and all its thousands of potential connotations) is somehow worse for a child than watching somebody explode. That will never make sense to me. If you're trying to protect kids with this policy, I'd recommend enforcing the rating on the box. If you're trying to keep your community relatively clean and friendly, then I hear ya.

[Circuitous]

Nah, I agree. It's just, protecting the innocent on a game like that seems silly.

[o_ihmhi]

I think it's funny that there are people who worry about swearing in a game that should at least be rated T, if not M.

It's like you are catering to the people who should not be playing the game at all. Does no one consider the fact that if their parents are fine with them playing such a game they probably do not give a damn if they swear either?

Or, failing parent's permission, they play anyway. It is not like the occasional "fuck" is going to burn out their virgin retinas. Geez, goddamned Americans these days.

[o_[o-t] scuzzy]

Originally Posted by Circuitous

Nah, I agree. It's just, protecting the innocent on a game like that seems silly.

Circuitous,

I think we're comparing apples to oranges here. I don't want to debate it, but perhaps I can put our policy into perspective. The language restrictions are for several reasons, the least of which isn't to "protect" little kids.

For one, we really don't need to hear that language, it adds no value to the game. I have yet to hear someone make a case for us that using explicit language adds to the enjoyment of the game for other players. It usually ends up in an attack either on another player personally, then a spam-fest, yada yada yada. It eventually takes away from the game play and team environment. We would rather players put their energy into becoming a better shot, not lowering their vocabulary.
The aspect that you are looking at is "protecting" a child from bad language yet they are in a violent video game. A child plays a game and they know how to separate reality from fiction. They know not to go around shooting people on the street. The shooting and gore is a function of the game. The way people react to the game, the way people behave verbably and in text is how they are handling their own or other players performance. That is a player aspect, a behavioral aspect, not a game aspect. The proper way to respond to disappointment doesn't need to be "Fuck you n*gger, you're a p*ssy." That is why I think we don't see eye to eye. You see this from a game-play violence perspective and we see it from a human interaction perspective. Learning that language sticks with kids a lot more then them deciding to blow someone's head off with a machine gun. Lastly content. Yes, the game is violent. Language content doesn't need to be sexually explicit, whether directed towards a player or not. We've banned people for being far to... inquisitive... when it comes to the younger players, as well as just plain talk about the acts in general. Again, that content adds nothing to the game and can be quite harmful to younger players, much more so then seeing some CGI blood.

I understand your point. We try and be reasonable. The comments about "nuts" being a banning offense was obviously made by someone else who knows nothing about our clan, or even read our clan roster for that matter. (ie [o-t] Nutz) Circ I appreciate your comments. We are just trying to keep the game the focus. We have found that curbing language goes a long way in finding mature players that enjoy playing with the same crew night after night.

Scuzzy

[o_someoldguy]

I really don't see a problem.

It's their server, they pay for it, so they can admin it any way they choose. If they set up rules, then abide by them or play elsewhere. This has been the same since the early days of online gaming. If you don't like the rules or disagree with the admin, you contact them and make your disagreements known (and don't do it on forums such as this, because forums like this don't have any control over how people admin their own server). After you contact them, it's up to them to decide if they want to change.

Regardless of anything else, even though it may be a "public" server, it's not yours to behave any way you wish. If you want to allow certain types of behavior or language on a server, pay for your own. Bitching here serves no purpose.

*EDIT* Nice post and great explanation, Scuzzy.

[o_16valve]

If it's the same SwampFox that was in our clan |RES|, he'd only be around 17 years old now.
But anyway, a big hello to SwampFox and other ex-members of [30+], which was my very first clan way-back-when.

Though at this point, most of the original 30+ ers would be 40+ by now

[o_nodnarb]

^^ he made a funny

[o_[o-t] scuzzy]

Originally Posted by 16Valve

If it's the same SwampFox that was in our clan |RES|, he'd only be around 17 years old now.
But anyway, a big hello to SwampFox and other ex-members of [30+], which was my very first clan way-back-when.

Though at this point, most of the original 30+ ers would be 40+ by now

16Valve,

Your SwampFox was 107997, ours is STEAM_0:1:126776. (Catacombs)
Our Swampy's going to turn 50 this year. He has a few kids, no grandkids yet though. He and FoxyLady(not an OT member) are both in 30+, I think Foxy administrates a few of their servers and forums.

Mooga! Good to see you my man, don't make yourself a stranger. Dunno how long you been gone but 3d, Obiwan are still running around. Obi's pacemaker is doing fine and 3d is as crazy as ever.

SomeOldGuy,

Thanks.

Scuzzy

[mervaka]

can i just ask whether you just asterisk out the word in question, or do you block the message completely? the latter is just uncalled for and plain annoying. when i swear i rarely use it with offensive intentions, i just use it casually, eg "wtf" is in no way offensive, but contains swear words in non-abbreviated form.

[mervaka]

lol fgt

no, i mean wtf -> "what the fuck"

[o_[o-t] scuzzy]

Originally Posted by Mervaka

can i just ask whether you just asterisk out the word in question, or do you block the message completely? the latter is just uncalled for and plain annoying. when i swear i rarely use it with offensive intentions, i just use it casually, eg "wtf" is in no way offensive, but contains swear words in non-abbreviated form.

We star our the word in general, no need to blank out the entire message. If you see "Scuzzy stop ****ing and play the game!" the message still gets acrossed and is kept toned down. wtf and wth aren't on the list. fuck, fuk, fuc, etc are. Again, all within reason...

Scuzzy

[Circuitous]

I hear you, Scuzzy. I took that into account, too - if you'll read again:

Originally Posted by Circuitous

Still, I fail to see how a simple word (and all its thousands of potential connotations) is somehow worse for a child than watching somebody explode. That will never make sense to me. If you're trying to protect kids with this policy, I'd recommend enforcing the rating on the box. If you're trying to keep your community relatively clean and friendly, then I hear ya.

I figured it was either for the kids, or to keep a clean and friendly community. A lot of people go the "for the kids" route, only to be reminded the game is rated Mature. A clean and friendly community, however, I can totally support. I highly suggest you all rock on.