The usual midfild

[o_sokrateas]

I think with hint_brushes you might be able to optimize it. PS, what the hell does that have to do with this?

[o_player]

It would have a unique midmap...

Imbrifer, it depends really. With these concrete pits that lead to the bases, do they lead you underground? As in, are the bases underground? If so, then I don't see how it would cause huge fps drops if the mid map was designed well.

[o_sidd42]

Imbrifer, If you are thinking of just a great flat plane with trees and small wreckage, then either it needs to be small and simple enough so you can draw everything at the same time, or it needs to be foggy to hide a clip plane

[mervaka]

it would work IF you used model based tree props i reckon, although this means you'd have to manually divide your visleaves using hint brushes as sokrateas said.

back OT.. yeah, i think badlands was quite successful because the base wasnt a complete labyrinth of coridoors and ramprooms. having more midmap would require less actual base. again, i cant stress enough how fucking clever badlands is!

[o_nezumi]

Badlands is why I made my first ever TFC map.

It's a shame about the spam-pit the flag is stuck in, but that's just about my favorite map to DM in.

[o_afx]

Badlands is a great map(fr aside) and i love the midfield, and as a pub map i think its excellent, but when you increase a midfield to that kind of size, from a clan game point of view, you lose a lot of the intensity within the base. Often you'll be attacking on your own, and should you wait around to meet up then whilst you'll probably be more successful, youre again looking at very much slowing down the game. Thats one of the main factors why the closely situated bases are most popular.

[o_caesium]

Originally Posted by Atari

tbh this is what I thought ff_aardvark done well, the midfield was pretty different.

Work will continue on aardvark again soon btw, though tbh there's not much to be done now until FF is released with all the textures and bits and bobs.

[o_addicted to morphine]

A focus on midfields is an interesting notion. I've tried to think about it a little and here's what I've come up with.

The problem, as I see it, is there is just a huge disjunction between a map being played on pubs and a map being played in leagues. I mean, on a pub, midfield sees a ton of action, just think about 2fort or Well. People seem content to kill anything they see, and usually their first contact is in the middle, so they'll throw four nades and 2 mirvs and then get shot in the head, respawn, repeat. But in a league where you have no O v O, the midfield becomes nothing but what shadow (correctly in my mind) described as a place "to reduce to viability of heavy offense." Midfield is fun to conc over, and that's about it.

In OvD, the defense isn't going to move out of the base to defend at midfield, because if they get conced over its a free run to the flag. If they get killed, they are seperated from the bulk of the D, and are further away (usually I would think) than if the D was in base. Oh, and usually the ammo bags are in the base, so Engies are SOL if they want to set up a D thats easily upgraded and maintained. I mean, I guess if you really wanted you could put bags in midfield, but I don't think Engies would ever really get a chance to set up, as they wont have enough time between attack waves.

I guess it would really take an original map idea to make the defense, in an OvD scenario, come out of the base and defend in midfield. I think that's the only option if you want to move the action away from the base. The only type of map that I can imagine which would encourage that, would be if the base was just a mess of corridors and a bajillian entrances, and the midfield was a bottleneck, and that doesn't seem like much fun to me.

In conclusion, if you want to emphasize midfield, you'll have to design it in such a way that in league play, clans will think it a good strategy to push out of their base and hold the line there. You'll have to map with league play in mind, because most people in pugs will always fight midfield, so they can hit 100 kills before the map change.

[o_own3r]

The midfield doesnt have to be an entirly open place, think of de prodigy's outside areas that style would make a pritty awsome midfield.

[o_atari]

Originally Posted by Caesium

Work will continue on aardvark again soon btw, though tbh there's not much to be done now until FF is released with all the textures and bits and bobs.

Good luck dude, looking forward to playing it - Hope the frame rates improve outside though

[o_alligator]

I have something special for the midfield in adgore (not something that big, just similar to prodigy to reduce heavy offense).

[o_dammage]

while on the one hand midfield should be creative, it shouldn't be too complicated, too.
Take stag for example (I'm talking of Q3F/ETF) - a simple block and a Z-Like catwalk on which you can get from the middle of the yard or from each base (the catwalk connects both bases, is higher than the yard). Under it in the middle there is a pit where you can fall to enter canalization.

Plus stairs, pillars and obelisks. Period. Simple and genious - those tiny obstacles are wide enough to protect you from enemy fire, but are not too big (and thus making the runs longer for example).

And this yard is really fun, if the flag is lying around there.

And remember: only two classes can conc With reballanced cap, pyro, sniper the offence could get more setups than *hmm, how many scouts this time?* And the spy could never conc, too

So that creating too many obstacles without a pointé could make other classes even less useful than they are right now on offence...

Creative yards? Yes, please! Labyrinths etc. No/Fuk No! Rather something like stag or chaos or smooth or spring. The player should always know where to go, else the map is doomed. (don't worry, you probably don't know (some of) them, but they should come to ff )

[o_racer]

I agree better midfields can only help.
A great midfeild map is Crossover 2. You have the bridge, the water route and the detabble tunnel, then you have the two courtyards with outbuildings, lifts making the outbuildings more than just props.

Shutdown 2 and Well also have interesting midsections. they offer a center building with routes thru and over and water route on well. They offer sniper havens. On Xmas_Well3 i think it is they even have falling snow and ice and the ice refreezes if if breaks and all thats on the old HL1 engine.

Shouldnt the gameplay evolve and the maps?

The only thing im frustrated with in FF is how much its simply retuextred models and maps and not alot of new ideas (combinding classes that no one plays, redoing classic maps changing a route or adding a new route, creating one new room and even move a flag to that new spot. etc)

[o_kam]

uhh crossover2 has one of the WORST midfields ever

[o_nezumi]

Crossover2's midmap is shitty and spammy and sometimes I die just trying to dive into the water. It's still pretty fun on a pub though. Trying to RJ on top of the lights and shooting down on people never gets old.

[o_racer]

Just wanted to clarify my position on Crossover2.
In some matchs and in some cases in pubs it has gotten insanely spammy at the bridge. Usually only if it has alot of players or one team sucks. What I was trying to point out was it had 3 distinct routes, water, bridge and detable tunnel.

Here is how I would make Crossover 3. (I tried mapping dont ask what happened lets just say im lucky not to be in jail). I would add two side bridges. In the example you can see the one side bridge. The red end opening goes directly into the detable tunnel, the blue side could either go to the curve near that blue lined center wall or could go slightly right and come out in the yard near say the lift (but still just yards to the side of the main opening).

Above for visual interest and a lil more detail, add a catwalk with a ladder up. Or could remove the ladder and only way to catwalk is to conc (or rj, gj).

the near side would have the same thing. Now it has 3 bridges in the same space, still with water acess.

[o_6.6]

I definitely like the idea of varied midfields and would love to see a lot of action take place there. One of my favorites was 2mach from QTF. Even though it was pretty small, it had some nice wreckage in there and the action was just non-stop.

For my part, I'm going to try my hand at map-making with having an interesting midfield as a central piece of the map. It would take the basic box approach, but running along either side of the box walls would be a hallway with windows looking over the field so defenders could provide fire from both sides against those running up through the middle. Also, these halls would not continue into the other team's base, so they're strictly for defense. In addition, there would be an elevated walkway overtop of the midfield which would provide either a roof or second-floor access to the base. Finally, the midfield would be surrounded by a moat with bridges going to each base. Through the water would be a third entrance to each base in the style of 2fort.

I think the halls on either side of the midfield could provide for some fun play as you'll have crossfire coming from both sides and they would be angled so you could just take out the opposing team's hallway, so there would be fire coming from that direction, as well.

It at least sounds like a good idea to me, so I'm interested in your thoughts.

[o_fragile]

make the bases floating, with jump pads launching a player from one to another. and have some sorta landing zone where it doesnt hurt to crater into.

[o_own3r]

Originally Posted by Fragile

make the bases floating, with jump pads launching a player from one to another. and have some sorta landing zone where it doesnt hurt to crater into.

I have looked into jump pads on HL2, using exsisting entities its not very practical. If something could be done with LUA or in FF that would be by far the best option for jump pads.

Currently the func_push entities can only point horizontally or vertically, they do not fire the player very effectivly like in quake so levels have to be designed with smooth plane transitions like ramps and stairs.

[o_nezumi]

You can make launchers that work pretty well in source. You just need the launcher to be a ramp.

Stuff like these can send you all the way across the map at a good altitude.