Next patch is in beta!

[mixer]

im just trying to find the logic behind those changes/tweaks ... i mean, in clanplay, where would you put a pyro instead of an soldier? i usually play pubs but participated an clan-practise last night, shutdown2, def-setup: 3 Solys 1 engi ... yet the pyro is weakend and the soly enhanced ... wheres the logic?
I think FF is supposed to be a team game, but when i watch offence-players: its just rushing, trying to find the hole, the time when a deffer left the spot, where is the team-play? there is no because the off-classes are too strong, they dont need to rely on a heavy class to destroy the sentry first, they just ignore it and conc by, or as medic destroy it themselves because they can ... yet the sentry is weakend and the conc-movement enhanced ... wheres the logic?

[Mortifer Soldat`ch]

In regards to the engy's not being buffed, perhaps something could be done with their dispensers...maybe an instant health/armor buff taking all of the resources out of the dispenser with a say...10 minute recharge...or perhaps a different SG version...maybe instead of rockets one that has a flamethrower...I don't know, don't think that engineers should get the shaft TBH.

Ok well engys serve 2 purposes: EMP's and SG. they are damn good at what they do; they are weak by themselves, but what they build rivals an army.


and as for eveyone whining about the caltrops - put a tampon in it and move on. you will learn to use the pad just the same as you did the caltrops. Man up and dont be scared to lose something you know how to use in trade for something that would be more beneficial.

[Vicious]

Originally Posted by Skanky Butterpuss

i think the outcry is going to come from shit engineers that cant engy properly, so theyre going to blame it on sgs being underpowered. like ive played engy a few times and thought "gee, my sg goes down really easily" and then i realized IM A SHITTY FUCKING ENGY. just like most of the bleeding heart engy QQers probably are.

I knew something like this would eventually come out, so once again I will say it:

I'm not complaining for MY personal problems, I'm complaining for the players that will pick up the game for the first time and think "Wow this could be a cool class". But wait, my sentry goes down easy and it have the 2nd worst stats in the game.

You can't just make a class available to people who are good at it. If that were the case, why redo any of it? We could've just kept it the same and moved toward the gameplay.

By your point, my point was just as correct. There was no problem with the sentries, just a problem with the shitty offensive players. There just happened to be more of them complaining than there were engies that had issues.

I was searching for an answer and it was given to me. Tracking issues have been addressed. That's fine. That's what I have asked for from the beginning. If the sentry can actually pick someone up now, I'm fine with the weakened state. It's a give and take that I was curious about but didn't see in any reports.

You can't look at advancements in the game as something the players will "have to deal with" or "have to just get better at". That's the non-n00b friendly attitude that alot of people who gave up on the game complained about.

[Hammock]

This is why we can get 5 engies playing in some pub matches then? Because the sg sucks soo much?

No we get 5 engies playing because the class itself is easy to play for beginners. And rightly so a beginner shouldn't be able to keep his sg up as long as an experienced engy.

In this patch we saw a slight decrease to the engy and some increases to the other defensive classes. Hopefully this might actually make some "newbie" who just purchased this game realize there's other fun initial classes to play other than the simplistic engineer.

Thank god sg's didn't get beefed up, I seriously get tired of running into 4-5 of em in pub games. If they did get beefed up it would be all the more reason for someone not to switch from that class ever, and ignore every other class, because come on how easy is it to build an sg and have it aim for you?

[Agent Buckshot Moose]

Originally Posted by Hammock

Thank god sg's didn't get beefed up, I seriously get tired of running into 4-5 of em in pub games.

Aardvark ahoy!

[Vicious]

Originally Posted by Hammock

This is why we can get 5 engies playing in some pub matches then? Because the sg sucks soo much?

No we get 5 engies playing because the class itself is easy to play for beginners. And rightly so a beginner shouldn't be able to keep his sg up as long as an experienced engy.

In this patch we saw a slight decrease to the engy and some increases to the other defensive classes. Hopefully this might actually make some "newbie" who just purchased this game realize there's other fun initial classes to play other than the simplistic engineer.

Thank god sg's didn't get beefed up, I seriously get tired of running into 4-5 of em in pub games. If they did get beefed up it would be all the more reason for someone not to switch from that class ever, and ignore every other class, because come on how easy is it to build an sg and have it aim for you?

4-5? I hope you're talking about on both teams combined. I rarely see more than 2 on a team and when I do it's on attack and defend maps or spam maps like aardvark where you also see 78 snipers.

[Dr.Uudge]

i think w/ the tweaks in the demoman, soldier, and the hwguy heating thing removed, there's going to be some time needed to see how they will affect the defense, especially due to the increase in explosion radius and since now the hwguy can just spray his stuff once again w/o the need for tapping;

and although i usually see at least 3 engies on each team, i think the tweaks are going to affect whether someone wants to stay as engy or not, considering, the tweaks would make them a better choice in terms of adapting to situations(and mostly likely more frags), rather than the stationary sg;

[caesium]

tbh i love it when a load of noobs decide to play an army of engineers... just go spy and go for the world record number of sabotages in one go lol i love the complete confusion and PANIC in their eyes as they all try to clang their sg's while they get owned by them - again and again and again hehe

[=AS= Pt]

Originally Posted by Vicious

4-5? I hope you're talking about on both teams combined. I rarely see more than 2 on a team and when I do it's on attack and defend maps or spam maps like aardvark where you also see 78 snipers.

Nop, 1 team only. 2morforever, and aardvark. You can see that pretty much I really think that the game is excelente, and it isnt a 1% more or less in the sg that will make the diference. 1 mirv kills it one way or the other. And it is the noobish class friendly. If you dont know how to aim, build a sg, and let it aim for you. I really think engies are a great class, and dont need no buffing up

Regards

[Vicious]

I think I may have misrepresented myself. I love the game, I really do. I'm not calling for a buffed engy, just not a useless one. If the tracking issues have been fixed, then fantastic, I have no complaints.

[chilledsanity]

Vicious: I'm in agreement with you, I love engineer class and it sounds like it's becoming less worthwhile now.

Well, we still want to add the level 7 SG, but that might have to wait for a later patch

Oh please yes

Currently, EMP's take out three classes effectively: Pyros, Scouts, and Engineers. After the patch, they will take out two classes effectively... unless scouts retain the large number of cells they had. If a person has no cells, the EMP does less damage than a medium range super-shotgun blast. Soldiers, heavies, medics, etc. They all take less damage from an EMP than a medium range super-shotty blast.

EMP's also don't explode bags as they used to in TFC

I'm not sure why you think EMP's are only effective against weaker classes, I find they're awesome against heavier units and they do detonate bags on the ground. I may not use them as frequently as you though, so these are just my perceptions. I agree that the engineer is all about (or should be) his SG and its position. I mean I've thrown my life in front of my SG before to prevent it from getting taken out, that's where the focus should be. I think most engineers would gladly give up 20% of their life to give their gun 20% more.

i think the outcry is going to come from shit engineers that cant engy properly, so theyre going to blame it on sgs being underpowered. like ive played engy a few times and thought "gee, my sg goes down really easily" and then i realized IM A SHITTY FUCKING ENGY. just like most of the bleeding heart engy QQers probably are.

I don't think it's that simple. I build my my sg's on higher ground to avoid stray grenades, spots where they can't be sniped from a distance, have good cover on one side, good view of the enemy on another, I build dispensers to try and block off and detonate access routes, look for anyone who could possibly be a spy, shotgun enemies before my sg has time to aquire them (which happens more than I would like) and take cover behind my sg banging it with a wrench when I'm outclassed, and it STILL goes down all the time. If I'm a shitty engineer, what kind of player would constitue a GOOD engineer?

[Desyphur]

EMP's also don't explode bags as they used to in TFC

Um, yeah...they do...

[Vicious]

But they don't add damage. If you don't believe me, go to ff_mulch. Have a medic stand in one spot, surround him with bags, and place an emp on him. Let it blow up and have him tell you what his hp and armor is.

Then have him reup his health and do it again, minus the bags. It's exactly the same. I couldn't believe it myself but we did it a few times with the same result regardless of the bags around him left by any class. No added bonus.

You might wanna fix that.

[Skanky Butterpuss]

Originally Posted by caesium

tbh i love it when a load of noobs decide to play an army of engineers... just go spy and go for the world record number of sabotages in one go lol i love the complete confusion and PANIC in their eyes as they all try to clang their sg's while they get owned by them - again and again and again hehe

I got a 5-at-a-time last week on your map !

[Hammock]

If I'm a shitty engineer, what kind of player would constitue a GOOD engineer?

Spectate Holdntoss when you see him playing engy one game, and you'll see what constitutes a good engy. I don't think I've seen you play so I can't compare the two of you, but I do know holdn is an amazing engy who very rarely looses his sg. The dude can keep it up with demo's spaming it non stop at the top of aardvark ramp.

[Adamido]

Hammock is right, I played with HoldNToss today, and he's pretty badass engy.
EOT.

[mixer]

Originally Posted by Hammock

Spectate Holdntoss when you see him playing engy one game, and you'll see what constitutes a good engy.

thats the one who always builds SGs on the enemy base on well6? ... heh .. have seen better ones ...

[Hammock]

Originally Posted by mixer

thats the one who always builds SGs on the enemy base on well6? ... heh .. have seen better ones ...

I see HoldN build sg's outside the enemy's base on SD2 up on the catwalk too. When he's doing shit like that he's just goofing off. When he's playing seriously ie: his sg is protecting his base or his flag, he is an amazing engy.

Plus no matter how good someone is you can usually find someone better, I didn't say HoldN was the best engy, I was just saying if you want to see a good engy rarely loose sg, watch this guy when he's playing for real.

[GeoKill----->]

Originally Posted by Skanky Butterpuss

I got a 5-at-a-time last week on your map !

I was there and it was epic

[Iggy]

Originally Posted by Credge

This is stuff I like to read, even if it shows that, in the current state, engineers won't be used as often as they were.

Also, IMHO, if you can't tell us specifics, then nothing should have been said at all. This includes changelogs and all .

But if we don't say anything, we get bitched at for not giving out any information. Double edged sword there.
I think the SG could use a little higher ROF, but that can be tweeked fairly easily. As for the changes the Pyro has undergone....trust me when I say he got something in return. Most people should like it.

Also, understand that the Devs are more likely to give out information...as we Beta's are sworn to secrecy unless something has been mentioned first.

2.0 is fun as hell, and it's being worked on as quickly as possible.