[Innoc]

Originally Posted by Raynian

Seriously? Haven't we had enough of blaming games and movies for this? The issue is caused by poor living/social conditions which result in a situation where the offender wants to inflict harm upon others, and/or end his own life. The most you could attribute to games/tv/movies is "inspiration" in how they accomplish that, but that's still a shitty excuse - it's not like people don't know how to shoot others if they haven't played CoD.

It's not a shitty excuse. Fact is if you have a vulnerable person you work to keep them moving in a positive direction and you minimize or work to mitigate those factors that may have a negative effect. Only a fool would permit continued exposure for vulnerable individuals. There is a demonstrable link that has already been established for this type of person. Let me make sure that you don't misconstrue what I am saying. I don't think this should be kept from everyone...only those who are at risk.

Also, I think your comment about poor living/social conditions. We're talking about a brain that is WAY outside of normal. While there may be some occasions where that is a factor I suspect you cannot show that anything but an edge case and certainly not at all true for the majority.

Originally Posted by Raynian

And let's update tens of thousands of schools, shopping centers, and other public areas across America to do this. Isn't going to happen, and as crude as it sounds, DEFINITELY isn't worth the cost. Something people need to learn to realize is that there IS a value of each life. If you spend a million dollars to save one person's life, you're taking that money from other people. If you take enough from people who are already having trouble getting by, you're just making it worse for them in the end.

i didn't say "do it". I suggested it as a possibility and it would be up to the people living in that area whether they want to do so as they would and should be those who would pay for such changes. And frankly what you posted seems contradictory. On one hand you express that there is value to a person's life and then try to say that it's not worth spending money to save it? Really? Frankly, the idea of making the doors in a school assault-resistant so as to make it more difficult for a deranged person to blow through killing people seems like a cheap buy to reduce or eliminate future potential massacres.

Originally Posted by Raynian

How do people honestly come up with this? Seriously? "oh, we're having an issue with guns in schools, let's just make them ALWAYS available in schools so that teachers can do something!"

so many things wrong with that.

1) what if the teachers are the ones at fault here? they're working a high stress job, and everyone knows that some teachers definitely have some mental problems. it's not a "well create a program where we phase out the bad teachers"

same sort of problem as your first point there, it's not feasible and would cost too much.

2) are you going to train the teachers how to use said weaponry? a shooter that comes into a school isn't just going to give up because there might be someone else in the school that can possibly stop him. he doesn't care about his own life. besides, he can just shoot the armed teachers anyways. it's not some miracle fix where "oh this school might have a hidden gun so I won't kill all the students there". if anything the cons highly outweigh the pros.

You can stop with trying to be insulting. It just makes you look like an asshole.

How many of the school massacres have been carried out by teachers in the past 10 years? 20 years? 50 years? Fact is, most people work high stress jobs and most people are not taking arms into work to work out that stress. We can certainly go back and forth with ignorant generalizations or we can look at what history shows for this. The teacher population is not all that different from the general population and the fact is most people are not at all likely to take any weapon into a place to do harm to others like we saw with Sandy Hook. It's a person with a fucked up brain that would do such a thing. And if there isn't a program in place to remove such teachers from duty that exhibit such behavior then I'd be shocked...we could certainly go off on a tangent about how unions unfairly protect such fucked up individuals from being fired...but that deserves a different thread.

As to your second point that simply is not true. Situations where a shooter will face resistance are ones that they will avoid. They aren't looking for a gun battle. They are looking for a slaughter. Do we need to dig in to all of the statistics and articles about the correlation between gun ownership and violent crime rates declining?

The way you write seems like you think I'm shoving a gun into the hands of a teacher and then booting their ass into the classroom. If you re-read what I posted you will see that I mention those teachers who wish to carry. In order a regular to carry a concealed weapon you have classes you attend and you have to shoot a qualifying score. You also have to re-certify every so often (how long between events depends on the state). If a State goes this direction they can determine what, if any, additional qualification and check ups may be needed. Fact is...we're already seeing some movement this direction. Stop school shootings by letting teachers fire back, say Texas officials

Originally Posted by Raynian

see above statements about cost and how impractical it is to do

even if you just used existing systems (EBS, tornado sirens, etc) it wouldn't change much

the shooter walks into the school, kills people, kills himself. it's what happens every time. not going to change the fact that at the end of the day there are dead bodies.

As I stated above this isn't something I say must be mandated. I throw it out as ideas that would be inexpensive to implement and would possible help mitigate or stop these events from happening. For you to say it wouldn't change much seems silly. Based on what? Ever spend any time in a small rural community? The concept of mutual aid is huge. Raise an alarm like this and you have the potential of many in the community showing up to help. My guess is that you'll counter this with your disdain for those that own firearms and who actually shoot. Fact is I have much more faith in my fellow countrymen with a firearm than simply relying on the Police for everything. They can't be everywhere and it is incumbent

In multiple cases what has been reported was that as soon as it seemed clear that law enforcement was nearing or was on site the shooters took their own life. We can certainly argue what the specific reason might have been in each case but it seems clear that either capture or interdiction by an armed person was part of that.

Originally Posted by Raynian

I understand it's just as hard to flush out all of the firearms in America because there are literally hundreds of millions of them. but frankly there is no excuse for how prevalent they are in our culture except for people who "feel safer" because of them, which itself is a shitty excuse 90%+ of the time. If there were actually significant gun control you'd clearly see a huge drop in homicides/violent crimes.

No excuse except for the 2nd Amendment? Honestly, what you posted here is made up. I can post the FBI Index crime stats that show that you're wrong. I can post stats from the CDC that show that you're wrong. You're just making this up. You can also look at the trends.

I'm not sure why you have such a hard on for firearms as I don't think I've read anything here that would suggest a root cause. Frankly my general sense is that you have some incredible disdain for you fellow humans. If I am right I am sorry about that. To see your fellow citizens and such untrustworthy things is an awful way to go through life.

I have no problem being around others who are armed. I generally see them as people taking charge of their own life and circumstances and people on whom I can rely. Do not construe this to mean that I think ill of those who choose not to own or use firearms. What you do has no impact on me....unless you are trying to infringe on my rights. In which case....you're a POS...