The Mosque
 

I'm a bit surprised no one has brought this topic up yet....

You know the one I'm talking about...

Discuss.

I do not give a crap who builds what church where, and I am ashamed of my countrymen for making such an issue out of it.

I see no issue whatsoever.

As Stefan Molyneux points out, the principle seems to be that people of the same faith as those who commit a terrorist attack are suddenly guilty by association and are unable to build a community center, let alone a Mosque, near the site of said terrorist attack. If this is the true principle, then how about we bring up the building of Christian churches in Iraq? What about the settlements we support built on the grounds near the genocidal war-crimes against Palestinians?

Americans and many people world wide have been fed nothing but propaganda bullshit from the State about the culture of Muslims, the religion of Islam, and general Arab culture for that matter. These are the people who are self-righteous from taking a one-lane drive down the road of history. I do consider Islam just as coo-coo as the other mainstream religions, but I see any attempt to vilify it as some "great danger" as merely the bullshit propaganda of another religion or stupid people ignorant of history (see: Pat Condell).

Find some other place to build. Those of you already pissing on those who oppose it should be ashamed of yourselves.

Why do they have to find some other place to build it? Why should I have I feel ashamed of myself for believing in freedom all of the time for everyone instead of only for myself and when it benefits me like you do? You wouldn't have a problem with a church being built there. You might mind now that I bring that up in retrospect, but we all know you wouldn't. In fact, you probably wouldn't even know a church was being built there. It wouldn't have been such a big deal! It would have just been built. So, why's it such a big deal?

http://www.cracked.com/blog/3-reason...akes-no-sense/

Yes, it's a Cracked article, but it's pretty conclusive. I find it hard to argue with as if it weren't already. Innoc you're going to have to explain your ideas here.

http://www.indecisionforever.com/201...land-disputes/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_692234.html

watch both

We shouldn't have to accommodate the emotions of people who make association errors between fundamentalist Muslims and the kind who have been getting along with other Americans for many years before the attack.

We need a little more convincing than a simple declaration by fiat, one containing what appears to be emotion. Do you have a rationale to your statement?

We live in America. Land of the free, home of the brave and all that jazz. I feel like you can't claim that you love this country and not support its basic ideals like freedom of religion. These people can build their Mosque anywhere they like. It isn't immoral, illegal or wrong in anyway.


I feel the need to point out that most arguments against them building are based either directly, or loosely around punishing all Muslims for the acts of a few. This is the equivalent of holding all Christians morally accountable for the crusades, or the Inquisition.

But aren't you pissing on the graves of those who fought and died for the freedoms we enjoy? After all, freedoms are not limited just to those deemed worthy... they are for everyone, or no one.

Innoc only believes in freedom he may enjoy.

Why do people so often assume this is a freedom issue? It isn't. I am unaware of anyone who's said they don't have the freedom to build where zoning and other restrictions allow.

I also don't believe for one minute that this is the only place in that area that has real estate available for them to build their place of worship. I believe that this site gives them the ability to attention whore in close proximity to ground zero. While there may be other reasons for their siting I believe this is primary for the choice. If there is any pretense of "living in peace" then they should build elsewhere.

Also...skip the parallels and analogies. I don't believe that there is any other situation that is an adequate parallel to this one.

By the way...I did not provide any other explanation in my first post deliberately as I was certain that some would "assume" my intent was to infringe on the freedoms of another.

Freedom also allows for the ability to show respect and kindness to others as opposed to doing whatever you want wherever you want. I also find it interesting that, by and large, in a country dominated by Islam I seriously doubt that the Jews or Christians would be shown the same support by those of you who have and will attack my position.

I made no analogies... nor do I intend to. Given your past explaination of "rights", they have the "right" to build there. You(and everyone else) are entitled to your opinion. As for assumptions, it seems interesting that you in no way said that you believe they have the right to do so, even if you disagree with it. Most people whom have served/sacrificed for this country, and what it believes in, should stand up and say exactly that.

Not bringing in an analogy, but an honest question: In the Oklahoma City bombing(another terrorist act), the perpetrator(s) were Christian. Would you oppose a Christian Church/Community Center 2 blocks away from that?

As for Islamic countries showing the same support for a similar situation... that's what makes the USA better than them. We claim to be tollerant, and yet this controversy proves otherwise. Which face should others trust?

No, there's no law against it, but enough people bitch about something and you'll be amazed how quickly politicians will give somebody special treatment.
Attention whore for what? Is this the kind of attention anyone would want? By the same logic, you could say don't build it in NYC at all. There are plenty of other cities where "they" could go, after all.

Why shouldn't they use the building they've chosen? Is there some kind of sensitivity radius, outside of which these protesters are perfectly fine with mosques being built?
Well those countries aren't America, are they? Let them worry about their own society and values.

They consciously made that decision. You're correct about that. However, your reasoning is terribly wrong. They wanted to point out the fact that Muslim-Americans died during the terrorist attacks. They wanted to reaffirm their position in the community. It was a little attempt at establishing a little tolerance. Their message would have gone unheard if it weren't for their decision to build it close to ground zero. It would have just been another vague building in some vague city with an opportunity missed.

Your argument reminds me of those who say homosexuality is a choice. Who purposely chooses to lower their quality of life? Who purposely chooses to open themselves up to hugely increased chances of harm? Likewise with this scenario, what dumb fuck would build a mosque near ground zero as if they were some kid prodding a bee's nest with a stick? It makes absolutely no fucking sense why someone would do that. REALLY. THINK ABOUT IT.

Unfortunately, even after trying, the message has been missed. The second the story went in one ear and out the other of the common American, his defense mechanism started grinding to a start. He started protesting in the streets about how America, the freest country in the world, should suppress the rights of American citizens. America! Yeah! Freedom! Freedom (for me only)! Freedom of (my) religion! Freedom (to do as I say!)

The funny part of that statement is how they can build the cultural center whether or not the community agrees with it. They could begin construction this instant ignoring the ranting and raving of the sheeple. They haven't chosen to do that, though. Why? They wanted the community to voice opinion (big mistake). They wanted to the community to decide the center's fate. The only disrespectful and unkind folk were the dumb fucks bawin' their fucking eyes out in the streets.

Second, what are you suggesting there? I am definitely sure of the fact that Christians and Jews probably have their attempts at establishing religious places of worship snuffed out by Muslims in Islamic countries. Are you trying to use that as justification for the behavior displayed by people like you in protest? Are you suggesting we lower our standard to their level instead of upholding one better?

Gimmie a fuckin' break.

LOL INNOC IGNORE THIS POST AND CLAIM YOU HAVE ME ON IGNORE GG
WE ALL KNOW NO ONE 'IGNORES' OTHER PEOPLE.
YOUR EGO WON'T ALLOW IT.
YOU NEED TO KNOW WHAT I WRITE TO FEEL SECURE.

So your contention is: "Why do we have to be better than 'insert other country here'?"

I think the fact that we have higher standards than Saudi Arabia and Iran is a good thing. If we only set our moral bars as low as them then we are a sad group of people indeed.

It should also be noted that the building was very cheap, considering it's NYC. It was an abandoned Burlington Coat Factory, for goodness sake. (That's some "hallowed" ground for you.) Go take a look around the area. There's basically nothing there. It's not like tourists go touring around there. It's practically abandoned. In fact, the place would benefit from a community center. So why not? Oh yeah, fucking Islamophobes like Innoc.