ff_tiger, a tiger remake.

[o_nezumi]

Are you guys serious? No one is making tiger? It's not in any of the in-progress lists and a search returns nothing. I'm surprised that no one's jumped on this one yet.

I really didn't want to jump on the remake bandwagon, because there's so many original ideas to be made, but I just can't pass this one up. And besides, it just wouldn't be FF without tiger.

Well, if no one else is doing it, I'll remake tiger. I've got some experience with the expansive city 3D skybox, which go great with tiger.
I'll see if I can dig up a decompiler (for map dimensions) an' get in touch with Arne 'cyNic' Lund.

Update edit: I plan on making the map dark, rainy, and foggy. This should decrease visibility to the point where sniping won't be such a problem as it was in the original. I liked sniping in the original, but seriously, if you didn't want to snipe the map became difficult to play.

[Mulchman MM]

I love maps that look good - like tiger. I never really liked playing it, but damn it looked good.

[Jiggles]

Yeah, Sniping was really good on that map :)

[o_kam]

What the fuck is tiger :|
Another obscure map that's only played by yanks?

[o_jinx]

I was never that crazy about tiger tbh, though it was pretty. the gameplay wasn't that hot, though.

wasn't tiger the 'sequel' to totalwar? I'm much rather see totalwar... is someone working on that, I can't remember?

[Mulchman MM]

totalwar was great... when playing w/ a buddy who's on your lan and you're both on the same server but on opposite teams and he holds the enemy respawn open while you just keep tossing blue pipes down the stairs. ah, fun times; the mapper was an idiot though.

[o_nezumi]

Well, the whole reason I'm remaking this map is because it can probably look so pretty, besides it being like the most popular custom TFC map evar (in pubs). I sure hope I can deal with the sniping though.

Update progress: I've decompiled tiger, started on the layout of ff_tiger, then fallen asleep. Just as soon as I find some apropriate music to jam out to, I'll recommence work.

[o_jinx]

you talk like you're gonna have it done sometime tomorrow afternoon :P

[o_lithium]

remake Osaka!!

[Mulchman MM]

god, no

[o_fresh]

god knows i want to break freee!

[o_loader]

rofl!! classic

[o_groovyf]

What the fuck is tiger :|
Another obscure map that's only played by yanks?

Tiger is a top map! We used to have some ace Community nights on that map at bygames :)

[o_sh4x]

I hate the map name.

[o_rp]

remake gleadheirch (spell?!) :P

[o_nezumi]

you talk like you're gonna have it done sometime tomorrow afternoon :P

Maps done.

...

...

Nah, I'm just joshn' ya.

The lighthouse I made earlier for ff_harbor is done though. It just took some Ctrl+C and a bit of Ctrl+V.

[o_darknight]

Well, the whole reason I'm remaking this map is because it can probably look so pretty, besides it being like the most popular custom TFC map evar (in pubs).


Must be an American thing - I've never even seen the map over here...

GL with it though. :S

[o_badluck]

I've seen pictures of tiger remade for CS:S, so it's out there somewhere. But tiger is the best 5v5 map ever. |-ScK-| destroyed everyone on it.

[Mulchman MM]

Yeah, it was fun 5v5. It sucked otherwise because people would go sniper.

[o_sh4x]

Yeah, it was fun 5v5. It sucked otherwise because people would go sniper.

Do something about it man!

With your leet coding skills you could insert zeros and ones somewhere...

like create a server variable that keeps track of who's bhoping and who's not. If you haven't behopped in say 2 minutes you get banned from the server.

[o_deadeh]

remake gleadheirch (spell?!) :P

!!! Best idea ever !!!

Glenhoddle_r was a great map! Never could learn to spell it properly tho

[o_nezumi]

Oops, I accidentially made Mackrel instead of tiger.

Mackrel is kind of a CSS map right now but it'll be a FF map as soon as FF is out.

[o_racer]

A very fun map indeed.
Here's some stuff and pics.

http://www.planetfortress.com/jmcstfmapzone/tfctiger.htm

[Jiggles]

You simply must make the tank turret operational :)


Ok, that'd probably be too powerful, still fun though :P

[o_groovyf]

You simply must make the tank turret operational :)


Ok, that'd probably be too powerful, still fun though :P

It is operational (in the original tiger). Bit of a bugger to get in and out of though, but great for mowing down the enemy :D

[Jiggles]

If I remember, just the machine gun turret was operational; I was suggesting the actual tank turret :)

[o_zsilver_fox]

Combined with Source physics, it would own all.

[o_lillbrorsan]

Ah i remember this map, so much fun! :D

[o_nezumi]

I'm discovering that making someone else's map is hard, because you can't visualize it in your head as well.

But progress continues and I should have it done eventually.

P.S. Using a func_precipitation to make snow doesn't ever work, does it? Will it perhaps be fixed in FF? I should go officially suggest this.

[o_nezumi]

Additional: Does anyone know how to moddell? I need a tank. A tiger tank to be specific.

If anyone wants to make me one of these (http://personal.pitnet.net/heathde/749/tiger-2.jpg) that you can climb in and play around in, I'd be happy. I'll be damned if I make one out of brushes.

[Jiggles]

I would if I had time :(

Does DoD:S have any tank models you can steal? :twisted:

Like maybe this? (http://www.ykt.ru/gallery/gals/dod/95013.jpg)

[o_nezumi]

<3, Jiggles.

[o_nezumi]

Uh, how do I get models from DoD into HL2? I've got all the props_vehicles files extracted from the gcache, so then what?

[o_nezumi]

Screenshots!!

Is it just me or does this look fucking rad?
http://www.superjer.com/nezumi/ff_tiger/ff_tiger0000.jpg

Also, I found one of these...
http://www.superjer.com/nezumi/ff_tiger/tiger_error.jpg

I guess HL2 didn't like my map as much as I did :P

[o_gnyevko]

I told a programmer but he just ignored me...

Now what the fuck do I do?!

[Circuitous]

Quite rad.

[o_azlan]

That's awesome man! Your skills have improved tenfold since you started posting here, great work!

I love the concept of a foggy map, it will help take out the advantage snipers have on this map and it might end up playable. Just make sure there are still good places to conc.

[o_beavis]

That looks wicked. Now please finish it! Don't give up!

[o_ivaqual]

It does look rad, yessir.

[mervaka]

looks great, but how well does it play?

[o_nezumi]

Lol, the map doesn't play at all yet, really. This was basically the one camera angle in the whole map that didn't look totally incomplete at the time I took it. A lot of the indoor stuff just outside of red's spawn (like below the lighthouse) was complete too actually.

Now I've gotten the north, west, and a bit of the south edges of the map done (which are a big part of the map 'cause the middle is mostly empty). The east side will take a lot of work, then I have to do all of blue's spawn area, and reds spawn room. I'm really looking foreward to adding sound to this map too. The original tiger was full of sound effects, and with soundscapes this version could be the greatest thing evar.

[o_racer]

Yeah that looks awesome. Like a part of Lost Coast after the sun leaves.

[o_kam]

lol you've gotta be joking

[o_nezumi]

Thanks to sage advice from trepid_jesse via bile, I've now got the tiger tank (liberated from dod:s) in position in front of blue base. Screenshots pending.

[o_aces]

good job on remaking tiger, i loved that map! few of us were playing it on our server the other night, good fun. maps like this, totalwar, nml should definately be remade. you could do great things with them on the source engine, and they are fun to play!

[o_shadow34721]

index buffer was listed as a fixed bug in the new hammer version for future reference

[o_nezumi]

That's good to hear. (This map isn't dead! I'm still working on it!)

[o_nezumi]

The limited version of this map I have done now has HDR lighting. Rejoice! Screenshots will be here once the quarter ends and I get some sleep.

[o_ghroth]

I love this map, so if you screw it up I KEEEL JOOO!

[o_fjorn]

I love this map, so if you screw it up I KEEEL JOOO!

KEEEEEEL JOOOOOO!!!

[o_nezumi]

Jeez, it is quiet in the mapping forum today.

This may or may not help:
http://www.superjer.com/nezumi/ff_tiger/ff_tiger09deca.jpg

http://www.superjer.com/nezumi/ff_tiger/ff_tiger09decb.jpg

So there you have it, so far.

If you're listening Circ, you can put the map to 55%, I guess. I've still got lots of the inside parts to make.

[o_ambex]

That looks good.

[o_donny]

Nice stuff. Hud is bit off though :lol:

[Circuitous]

For a second there I thought this was a new thread and you were posting a DoD map to lighten the mood, and then I tried reading. 55%, okie-doke. Looks neat, if not a bit dark.

[o_nezumi]

Heh, the DoD stuff is strangely apropriate for this map, because it was supposed to have a WWII theme. The hud is a bit obnoxiously large in this game, though.

[o_nezumi]

Here's a screenshot of the red spawnroom. Keep in mind that the lights are going to be turned down a bit to avoid that 'cigarette burn' look.

http://www.superjer.com/nezumi/ff_tiger/ff_tiger15decb.jpg

[o_kam]

2001 called, they want their map back.

[Circuitous]

Does seem a bit square. Then again not every place has crazy arched doorways and bizarre, engine-showcasing architecture.

[o_nezumi]

You're wrong, Kam. Tiger came out before 2001.

http://www.superjer.com/nezumi/ff_tiger/tf_tiger15dec.jpg

[o_kastofsna]

was never a tiger fan, but this looks good 8)

[o_kam]

lol I wasn't talking about the original, just that your work looks like it came from 2001.

[o_nezumi]

I know what you meant.

[o_nezumi]

Also, if anyone has any suggestions for changin anything about gameplay or layout of this map from the original, I'd welcome them.

As things stand, the blue team is getting another exit from their base that lets out further along the wall to the right of the tank. Red team gets a lighthouse that you can snipe from on many levels, but is more open (and hopefully easier to attack.)

I was considering making it easier for demo men to get into the spawn rooms to blow up the flag spawns.

I'm not too sure about any of this right now though. Non-symmetrical maps can be tricky.

-----

Also, I need some help using models:
I'm trying to use a prop_dynamic with the model models/props_lab/elevatordoor.mdl for an elevator door. I can use the 'SetAnimation' to get the thing to open properly, but it won't stay open. Does anyone know how to fix this?

[o_stino]

Here's a screenshot of the red spawnroom. Keep in mind that the lights are going to be turned down a bit to avoid that 'cigarette burn' look.

http://www.superjer.com/nezumi/ff_tiger/ff_tiger15decb.jpg

omg, and you are allowed to use that texture, and if i use it they call it an ugly red texture :p (the pipe in the back left :d)

[Circuitous]

He doesn't have so much light on it.

[o_ghroth]

little suggestion :lol:

keep the map organized for texture replacement down the road

[o_valk]

is this for tfc?

[o_nezumi]

Can do, Ghroth. Is this perhaps a subtle hint that some FF textures might be coming out soon? Most of the map is best suited by the HL2 city textures, but the bases could sure use some team-coloring.

I fixed the elevator too. Turns out it was getting screwed up when you tried to press the down button when it was already down, and up when up.

[o_nezumi]

So, in maybe a week or two I could release a test version of this map. I don't usually like to do this sort of thing because of version conflicts, and other crap like that, but some other people here have been getting pretty usefull feedback.

So... what do you guys think?

[o_swat_pointman]

Looks extrelmy good, detailed brush.

[o_nezumi]

I think this map is done. I'd post some new screenshots but certain Gnyevkos are running bitlord rightnow and it'd take a half hour to upload them.

I'm also going to release a beta of this map so I can get feedback on the modified layout, if anyone'll play it.

Please stand by.

[o_nezumi]

Hm... server crash?

Oh well.

Everyone download ff_tiger and lemmie know what you think:

http://www.superjer.com/nezumi/ff_tiger/ff_tiger_03.zip

I think I left the screenshots here...

http://www.superjer.com/nezumi/ff_tiger/ff_tiger_03a.jpg
http://www.superjer.com/nezumi/ff_tiger/ff_tiger_03b.jpg

[o_ambex]

gj on the map
:)

[o_geokill----->]

I really like the detail in this map

[o_nezumi]

Any comments on the layout? I'm not sure if the changes I've made will fix anything or just make it worse.

Also, does the elevator crash the game for anyone else? (*warning*)

[o_darknight]

DoD... :(

[o_nezumi]

Not just DoD anymore! I thought I maybe could get a better response if I made a DM version.

http://www.superjer.com/nezumi/ff_tiger/ff_tiger_dm.zip
So download this file and put the .bsp into your hl2mp/maps folder for some hot DM action.

Just a note, the HDR really doesn't work. The HDR lightmaps and cubemaps have been built, but there's no actual HDR going on and the cubemapped surfaces look a bit screwy. So goo look at the DoD version if you want to see HDR (which I suggest 'cause this map looks way way better with it):
http://www.superjer.com/nezumi/ff_tiger/ff_tiger_03.zip

Also, I'm pretty sure that the elevator in the DM version doesn't crash the map :? .

EDIT: Additional note: Ladders don't work in the DM version. I'm not gonna bother with the crazy new type of ladder if valve is going to arbitrarily remove the old (good) style of ladder from DM only.

[Jiggles]

I'm impressed; that must have been a shitload of work.

I'd put a little more lighting around the tank and boat, replace the redish trim on the steps outside, fix the base ladder (has supports hanging in the air), and generally optimize performance, and it should be great.

[o_alligator]

is this for tfc?
Well, let's look at some facts.
1) Tiger has already been made in TFC
2) This is a Fortress Forever mapping forum
3) The thread's title is "ff_tiger, a tiger remake"
4) The screenshots is a huge evidence that it is not running in the half life engine, (Gold source). We can obviously tell that it is running on the half life 2 engine, (Source).
Base on the facts, we can conclude that this is for Fortress Forever and not tfc.
Aside from that, I love your map. Very well done and great atmoshere overall. I ran it in dod:source so I can get the amazing HDR in your map :). I noticed one brush bug, which I'll soon post a screen shot of when I have time.
My suggestion is that you should add a bit more lighting on the outside. I had a great time falling down from that lighthouse as well (lol). GREAT MAP AND GOOD WORK <3!

[mervaka]

joke's on you. valk was being sarcastic :p

[Jiggles]

When is he not? :wink:

[o_player]

Very atmospheric map :D

I also like what you have done with it too.

I will write more when I have time.

[o_nezumi]

Thanks for the feedback :o
Ok, guess I'll add another few lights outside. Jiggles, were you talking about the ladder in the laundry room near blue's spawn?
Whenever I can get my hands on some FF textures I'll fix some things up and add a little bit of team coloring to the bases.

[Jiggles]

Yeah, it looks like it has supports for attaching to a wall, but it's too far from one.

I like how wide open the map is outside, but I bet it'll be a bitch to optimize :(

[o_nezumi]

Well, it looks like a full vis is possible on this map, it just took 37 hours. Fortunately, it just about doubled the framerate everywhere. If you step into the road in front of the building with the elevator, the framerate there is about 60 instead of about 30.

[Jiggles]

Good to know :) I love how big the lighthouse is in this version; the old one just seemed way too small.

How are you going to handle the cap point on the tank? The old one was "in" the tank, though that was always kind of annoying.

[o_shadow34721]

why did you only use like 2 cubemaps on the whole map?
reflections are killing it.

[o_nezumi]

There are exactly 40 cubemaps in the map, shadow. Your problem might be that you have HDR on in the DM version, which doesn't work and makes the reflective surfaces look all screwy.

As for the tank, I'm not sure. I was thinking of making a useable turret just sitting next to it and having the cap point up on top of the tank. If some modeller really wants to make me a tank that you can go inside I'd be happy but I'm not counting on it. I really don't want to make a brush-tank either. It's a shame too 'cause I loved the tank.

Also:

http://www.superjer.com/nezumi/ff_tiger/ff_tiger_dm0005.jpg

[o_shadow34721]

nope i definately dont have hdr on :/

[o_nezumi]

Could you post a screenshot of a problem area, shadow?

[o_stino]

i seem to crash when i try to use your elevator
and 1 other spot, but i cant really say where it is, oh yes, the tunnel at the start of the stairs to the lighthouse, behind a red "warehouse"

[o_nezumi]

I know the elevator crashes in the DoD version. It didn't crash in the DM version, did it?

And I've never found the other spot that crashes myself. Was it like up behind the wall behind the lighthouse? If you could point out the spot in a screenshot or something I could try to find it.

[o_sidd42]

Lots of interesting buildings, nice.

I think you've got 2 big problems with this map though.
Visibility: The engine is being forced to draw far more than it needs to, almost everywhere on the map. This is partly caused by a lot of your buildings having several small windows and doors, which can't block the vis. I think if you started to use areaportals and areaportalwindows properly, it might dramatically help your framerate.

Cubemaps: They don't seem to be working properly, in the dm version at least. Just walking round with a crowbar out, in lots of areas you get super bright highlights on the crowbar, in places where that shouldn't happen. Similarly a lot of reflective surfaces like metal railings, roof tiles, don't seem to be using accurate cubemaps.

Also, perhaps just a little brighter outside? I think try and make it as bright and easy to see as possible, without losing the night theme. I don't think it's too far off now.

[o_nezumi]

I am using areaportals but none of them close. If closing area portals turns out to work in multiplayer in the end, then I'll certainly use them.

And I'm really not sure about the brightness outside. I tried to make a bunch of the main routes in heavy shadow, but leave areas where people fight and sniping positions in bright light to decrease the effectiveness of snipers here ('cause the original tiger was an enormous snipe fest). I'd like to get an actual game going to test this sort of thing out after FF is released, but regardless this is up for tons of tweaking.

I'm gonna go look over the cubemaps again now.

[Jiggles]

They said areaportalwindows work in multi in the other thread (Ardvark). I have had no personal experience, though.

[o_luminous]

http://www.superjer.com/nezumi/ff_tiger/ff_tiger_03a.jpg

wont those umm.. seprator things in the roof kinda mess up concing down there :S

[o_stino]

I know the elevator crashes in the DoD version. It didn't crash in the DM version, did it?

And I've never found the other spot that crashes myself. Was it like up behind the wall behind the lighthouse? If you could point out the spot in a screenshot or something I could try to find it.

some stairs in a stretched Z form where theT is the tunnel entrance, in the tunnel you can see a prop: elevator fence but its not an elevater, V is the direction of the lighthous , the -- are stairs
__
V _/ T

__
--
--


LIGHTHOUSE

[o_stino]

Lots of interesting buildings, nice.

I think you've got 2 big problems with this map though.
Visibility: The engine is being forced to draw far more than it needs to, almost everywhere on the map. This is partly caused by a lot of your buildings having several small windows and doors, which can't block the vis. I think if you started to use areaportals and areaportalwindows properly, it might dramatically help your framerate.

Cubemaps: They don't seem to be working properly, in the dm version at least. Just walking round with a crowbar out, in lots of areas you get super bright highlights on the crowbar, in places where that shouldn't happen. Similarly a lot of reflective surfaces like metal railings, roof tiles, don't seem to be using accurate cubemaps.

Also, perhaps just a little brighter outside? I think try and make it as bright and easy to see as possible, without losing the night theme. I don't think it's too far off now.


"it might dramatically help your framerate."

is 213fps not good enough? :p
(193 if i look at the water)

[o_beetle]

I never needed to conc at that point in that pic, luminous. What would be the usefullness?

[o_nezumi]

Sorry stino, I still don't think I know where you mean.

Luminous: That hall is right outside of red's spawn. Generally all of the concing you'll need to do will be outside in the huge wide open spaces. You may need to do some concing in the blue warehouse to get to the cap point there but the roof is really high in there. Concing in the lighthouse might get kinda wierd though because of the floors breaking it up, but it should still be effective.

As for the cubemaps, the only place I noticed a real discrepancy was right outside blue's base, around the tank. I can put in another cubemap or two there. I'm also going to turn up the resolution on the one cubemap that's giving the washing machines in the laundry room their reflections.

[Nezumi]

Lol, I totally forgot about tiger. This map is all Super Pissed and Ready to Rock. Expect a release before long (probably before cacti, despite what I said in another post, 'cause this map is even closer to being done).

That is, if I can get teh hammre to work.

Edit: Damn I started a lot of FF maps. WTF was I thinking? I didn't even ever announce some of them. Why don't you love me like I love you hammer? *sob* Why don't you return my calls?!?

[Ihmhi]

It's because you left and Hammer is not as willing to take you back. Kinda like a certain person that's writing this.

WHY MUST YOU LEAVE US NEZ?! ;-;

*ahem*

So yeah! Tiger, fuck yeah! Please tell me that you have the gun turret working properly!

[KubeDawg]

YES TIGER PLZ OMG K THXBAI!

oh and plz tell us the other map names ur working on, even if they're only like 1% finished.

[Nezumi]

There's a stupid DM map that doesn't have a name, and there's a murderball map that's really really close to done named ff_murderisland.

Have you guys seen the hud icon that shows up when you have the ball in ff_push? I made that texture for murderisland and mulch liked it so much he ripped it off :P

[Dr.Satan]

so...does that make Mulch the whore or the ball the whore?

[Nezumi]

Mulch is a pimp.

The vtf for the speedometer texture, and the red combine shield texture in aardvark are both textures I made that are in FF. Grr!

Actually maybe the red combine shield texture caesium and I both happened to make independently. I don't remember...

[Nezumi]

you talk like you're gonna have it done sometime tomorrow afternoon :P

Maps done.

Technically I need to make the loading screen schematic still, although vtf edit won't work on this computer OR on my other computer on which it is freshly installed.

I also need to rip the textures for the tiger tank, but GCFscape won't work either!

I'm probably going to finish it all only to find out that pakrat doesn't work. Anyway, besides a full compile wich takes about a day, tiger is just about to be released, so assume the position.

[-=Roland=-]

Seeing as it's both GCFScape and VTF Edit that aren't working I'm going to ask....You have .net framework 2.0 installed right? They both require it.

[nodnarb]

...tiger is just about to be released, so assume the position.
*Assumes*

[Dr.Satan]

*Assumes*

[Nezumi]

Seeing as it's both GCFScape and VTF Edit that aren't working I'm going to ask....You have .net framework 2.0 installed right? They both require it.

I'm following the links and downloading the thingy from microsoft.com that they point to, but I suppose I should make sure I'm getting the right thing.

Edit: Uninstalling, redownloading and reinstalling the .net framework 2.0 didn't help :(

[stino]

does crafty work?

[Nezumi]

What's crafty?

[stino]

nems newest tool :D gcfscape, model viewer, bsp viewer, map/vmf viewer, texture browser, .. all in one :D

[KubeDawg]

Nezumi, I'm itching for a release, post screenies and download link on your first post when it's done!!! I can't wait to play this map!

[Nezumi]

Tiger is done. It's been done for about a month but I just gotta get it compiled. I keep meaning to get a friend to compile it on his super fast 'puter.

Anyway if I can stop procrastinating it'll be out within the week.

[Dr.Satan]

Sweet man!

[Lt Llama]

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE :)
Some fun at laast.
Hope you get it out at same time as 2.0 is coming.

[[AE] 82694]

let me know if you need a mirror for a couple of weeks.

[Nuk3m]

let me know if you need a mirror for a couple of weeks.
yeah ill host it on :e0:s server and stuff.

[KubeDawg]

Any word on this release?

[Dr.Satan]

whentigerwillout!

[Nezumi]

Tomorow, maybe, if the map is done compiling by then. It's either done with or still undergoing it's final (knock on wood) compile right now. It's being compiled right now at a friends house on a better computer than either of mine.

So barring any more goofy fuck ups, and assuming all the cubemap building and bspzipping doesn't get screwed up, the map may be coming out...

[GeoKill----->]

yay

[KubeDawg]

TEEHEE!

[Dr.Satan]

YAY!

Can't wait...

[Nezumi]

Maps done. I made a new thread 'cause this one's all long and cluttery and I can't edit the first post (unless someone wants to make me a mod or whatever)

Go here:
http://www.fortress-forever.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15873

~ Thread closed please visit the above link for more info.